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As we start to "re-open"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ThatBoyNick, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Today we have measured our record-high number in new cases to date in this country, overlapping our previous high by over 4k cases, as many states prepare and begin to "re-open".

    This country is a joke, this country is garbage.
     
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  2. Trader_Jorge

    Trader_Jorge King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Locking down the healthy serves no purpose other than to destroy the economy. Through data, we have clearly defined the vulnerable here -- old, unhealthy people. Target them. Focus 100% of our medical resources on them. Let all others return to work. Lockdown was intended to keep the hospitals from overcrowding. That threat has now passed, as today NO HOSPITALS are overcrowded. None. Today, lockdown serves no purpose other than to delay herd immunity, prolong the disease, and devastate the economy. It's simply bad policy. It's time to reopen safely.
     
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  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I read that Houston has had like 2~4 days with no new deaths (or cases)
    After the Rally I don't know if that will hold
    I hope so

    Rocket River
     
  4. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    The cities with overcrowded hospitals still need to sit tight.
     
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  5. Trader_Jorge

    Trader_Jorge King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    ^^^Listen to this guy talk with absolutely no understanding of the issue. It's amateur hour across the country... ...straight up ignorant public policy to deal with this virus that poses almost no threat to the working age population.
     
  6. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    This virus can potentially be causing long term heart, brain, and lung damage in many people, on top of the deaths. The goal isn't just to keep the hospitals from being overcrowded, it's to prevent people from getting sick until there is a vaccine or treatment that prevents death and organ damage. Or until we have substantial research that the death rate on this thing is very low, and that chances of long-term organ damage are very low. Locking down undeniably blunts the number of people getting sick, which buys time for the vaccine and research, achieving herd immunity might be a disaster.

    PREMIUM POST / GOOD DAY SIR
     
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    We were all specifically told the lockdown was to keep hospitals, ICU and ventilator capacity from maxing out.

    We have data showing the death rate is low, already.

    We have data showing it has been here way earlier than thought, already.

    Your "this country is garbage" is insane when the evidence is not nearly as settled as you think . Just because you will not be staving to death or starting from square one with another few weeks of lockdown, other people WILL be.
     
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  8. Senator

    Senator Member

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    What we need are full time disinfectants in large commercial spaces, human beings wiping down, while everyone maintains social distancing to some aspect. It's not the time to reopen entertainment, but come May 4, it should be ready to go.

    Moving around in Texas is very different to moving around in NY, why by default have some of the unhealthiest, bad habit addicted people in the world.
     
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  9. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Single day numbers like that can also be caused by things like large backlogs of tests being pushed through. The trend has been downward.

    I was also reading that there has been a big ramp up in testing this week, over and above what we were doing.
     
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  10. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    First and foremost yes, because that would have lead to more death. The first and ultimate goal is to prevent death and despair.

    We don't have conclusive data about the death rate.

    This country - the government and some people, have been complete garbage amidst this virus. The evidence of us having our record high of new cases today when a dozens of states are re-opening and relaxing rules is rock solid.

    No, I don't want anybody to starve to death, but just because our government is a complete joke doesn't mean we should play along. We need a mortgage/rent freeze and we need a UBI, on top of universal free healthcare right now... if we had basic things like that in place, we could take the quarantine seriously, but no our country is a joke and our people must eat ****.
     
  11. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Most of the re-opening/relaxing started in the last 2 days. You wouldn't see an uptick in cases from that. More likely than not, its a testing backlog or because we've increased testing another chunk. Additionally, there are almost always one-off type anomalies. Do you delete the comments if they are back down tomorrow?

    Additionally, not that I'm for re-opening too early, but how much death and despair do you think a global economic depression will cause? I know its not the 1930's, but go read Grapes of Wrath.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a national policy to start opening, one that tries to hold off another 2-3 weeks and opens with a bigger bang rather than all these "soft" openings. However, places like Texas are seeing their case curves continue to drive down despite higher testing ratios, so maybe a regional policy is more do-able. It should have been set up with a set of guidelines that the states MUST follow, not just recommendations...X% of test positive below 10%, 14 days of reduced new cases, X number of beds and ventilators, etc.

    I said it in an earlier thread. If the state of Texas hired a bunch of unemployed waiters/waitresses and made them contact tracers, we have the per capita case count low enough to where we could regionally drive it to near 0.
     
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  12. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Trump is Toxic
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    Yeah, agree. Add in the fact that the US had it's highest new cases total today. 38,764 cases in one day is horrible. That's more in one day but than all but 12 countries in the world have to date total. That's gonna get worse if people start easing restrictions.
     
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  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member
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    Bowlers gotta bowl bruh.
     
  14. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    No I don't think it's because of the relaxing of quarantine at all, my point is is that even during our (half-assed) lockdown its that bad and it potentially hasn't peaked yet, and now we're opening up, so it's an awful time to re-open, and imagine how bad it will get due to us relaxing rules right now. Our numbers have been consistently terrible I won't be deleting any comments, let me knows when our daily cases are down to under 1k a day once we get our testing up to over 20k tested per million.

    The economic depression is going to happen, and the sooner we begin to stomp out this virus the better, more deaths and more people getting sick the worse off our country is in the long run.
     
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  15. Major

    Major Member

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    A vaccine is not coming for another year.
    Proven treatments are not expected for months, at best, and that's assuming some of the current things being tried actually work.
    Society is not going to stay shut down for an extended period of time - deaths will start accumulating in other ways (people not getting treatment for other ailments, lack of routine screenings, mental health, domestic violence, food issues, etc).

    So given those three things, it's not that simple. The reality is that we're going to open up and there will be a virus around - that's true of next week or 3 months from now. Contact tracing and all helps, but as long as asymptomatic people can spread it, you're not going to stamp it out entirely regardless. It will be a constant game of whack-a-mole. So the goal is to slow it and spread it at a manageable level. We've already learned a ton on managing patients in the last several weeks (avoiding ventilators, etc) and that will be an ongoing process. It's not like it's just the US that's doing this - Europe doesn't have this under control either and places like Italy and Spain are starting their re-opening processes too. There are no ideal answers here, and simplifying it to "shut things down until the virus is gone" are not viable. Things are going to open, and the goal is simply going to be to do it responsibly.

    Just as one example, about 23,000 women are diagnosed with invasive breast cancer each month. Early treatment saves lives - but how many of those women aren't getting mammograms or going to doctors because elective procedures are shut down? How many of those people will ultimately die as a result? How many people aren't getting mental health treatments? Or getting their hearts checked? Or having chemo treatments delayed? And on and on. Now imagine that for every progressive disease out there. There are too many side effects of "shut everything down" that no one really considers when just trying to solve the one problem.
     
    #15 Major, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  16. txtony

    txtony Member

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    ... we should have a comprehensive and reactive plan to reality on the ground.

    Outside of TTI..

    Mask for everyone?
    Limit large group?
    Crowded transportation ban?
    Air travel ban?
    Border restriction?
    Hot spots remain in lockdown?
    Workplace social distancing mandate?

    Got to do everything to avoid spikes, which will happen.

    and provide secure and safe election (which won’t happen)
     
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  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    We have no tolerance for prolonged frustration.

    There was about 2-2.5 weeks of good earnest lockdown, and I've been seeing more and more people on the streets ever since. We are getting to the point where people have lost interest, and just want it to end, like children asking "are we there yet" every 15 minutes during a long car ride.

    God help us if something like this with a much higher mortality rate ever got loose.
     
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Three weeks ago, we saw 200k new CV cases.
    Two weeks ago, we saw 200k new CV cases.
    Last week, we saw 200k new CV cases.
     
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  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    What is the rest of the world doing?

    We cannot stay indefinitely closed and we will need to make strategic decisions to let people work but also limit risky behaviors and closely monitor for flare ups and second and third waves.

    Large social gatherings should be limited like sporting events, concerts, and conventions. Even restaurants and stores can have limitations in place. Addressing mass transit must happen to limit spread. However there are many jobs that can open. Make wearing face masks compulsory in the work place and public.
     
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  20. Senator

    Senator Member

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    Why would you need a mortgage rent freeze if people are getting stimulus money in the mail? Universal free healthcare... where will the doctors for that come from?
     

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