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  1. Furious Jam

    Furious Jam Contributing Member

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    We're talking about basketball here. Five guys, all of whom can be of different sizes and shapes with different skills, against another five guys with the same variables, creating an infinite amount of combinations, and that's before you bring anyone off the bench. It's not a math problem to be solved, it's not a recipe to be reproduced, and there is no single answer - it is the height of arrogance to believe otherwise.

    When a coach says "we just need to focus on what we do best" or "we just need to play our game" regardless of who the other team is or what they are doing, that's arrogance. When the strategy is to go small and failure results, but then the coach doubles down on it, that's arrogance. A coach who starts the series with a loss and responds by removing players from his rotation, that coach can admit his mistakes and learn from them - he has humility. Of course such a coach needs options to be able to adjust - different tools for different times instead of just a few archetypes.

    Mike D'Antoni is this folksy guy from West Virginia. Daryl Morey is a self-effacing dork from Ohio. They certainly don't appear to be arrogant but looks can be deceiving. I think we need someone in charge who is less interested in crunching numbers and designing systems - someone who takes it game-by-game instead. A basketball team is not a formula, a basketball game is not a lab, and wins are not some product that can be uniformly assembled - we need someone with the humility to accept those basic facts and adjust accordingly.
     
  2. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    analytics is great, I am a proponent of it...it would be ignorant not to use it heavily

    however, the Rockets just take it too far

    U know the dude who uses analytics and stats 100% of the time and completely ignores the eye test? That’s the Rockets organization as a whole.

    “the stats say this“...well, what’s actually happening on the court says u need to switch things up from time to time

    no one should be so extreme...completely ignore midrange and postups because they’re inefficient shots, and just take 50 threes regardless of how trash the shooting is because that’s the more efficient shot...no, that’s 2k basketball
     
  3. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    Analytics is just a tool to be used not the end all be all.
     
  4. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    I've been bitchin about arrogance of MDA forever...

    "We dont adjust to them - they adjust to us..."

    Theres a reason this fool has never won it all...
     
  5. Furious Jam

    Furious Jam Contributing Member

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    I'm not just talking about analytics. I'm talking about Harden walking the ball up the court, drawing a double team which you know is coming, and then throwing the ball around the perimeter or across the court looking for a 3, which the other team fully anticipates, resulting in the ball ending up back in someone's hands for iso with the shot clock running down (usually Harden, maybe Russ or Gordon, and god-forbid PJ or Austin Rivers). Yes, they are moving the ball but only in a very predictable way that the other team can counter by running them off the 3pt line. It's even worse when you have guys who can't get shots up quickly, who are very streaky shooters, or who can't shoot at all.

    But somehow none of that is supposed to matter if you do it all consistently, i.e. get a volume of 3pt shots up regardless of who is shooting them or whether they're good looks - the math will supposedly work out in the end because you've got it all figured out. Except it doesn't always work out because you haven't figured it out because maybe you're not as smart as you think you are, but you don't realize that, you never realize it, because of pure arrogance. That's what I'm talking about.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    We have to remember, the rockets have never been a team that were the talent favorite. Their was always a huge disparity in talent/quality players that are versatile who can do a number of things well, against the true contenders ala GS the last several years and this year vs the obvious teams. Analytics is only used much higher than what it generally should because it supports the huge difference in talent and focuses on bridging that huge gap. People can criticize it all they want but in order to give this team some sort of chance it's necessary unless you just get better versatile players.

    You're only as good as what the overall roster can do. The rockets will need to fix that first before anything else and go from there. It's really a dark time right now unfortunately with extremely limited avenues to make changes for obvious reasons.
     
  7. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    We constantly do everything to the nth degree - if some is good then more must be better.... we never grasp the concept of 'diminishing returns'...

    and we never consider context... yes 3>2 and based on your % it can be a more efficient shot... but when you hammer it and avoid other shots, then the d is going to adjust accordingly... and it becomes the % of a contested 3 vs 2....
     
  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    you’re right that analytics has helped to bridge the talent gap, but the Rockets just seem take it too far like it’s a blind devotion...the stats say this, so we’ll continue to do it no matter what regardless of what’s happening on the court

    analytics did help us to over-perform in the regular season...the talent on this roster should’ve never been posting historic offensive ratings...however, in the postseason, it’s consistently a fail for the most part...our offense falls off a cliff every postseason because teams know exactly what we’re gonna do, and know we’ll never change

    agreed...getting more versatile players is something I always fall back on...we lack pure hoopers...we’ve got a bunch of low skill specialists, and we keep acquiring these types...if teams are doing a good job guarding the 3 point line, or shooters aren’t hitting shots which is an often occurrence, then we’re screwed because the majority of the roster can’t post up, has no midrange game, can’t drive...sh*t, they can’t even dribble

    Jeff Green is a pure hooper...he can handle, pass, shoot, drive, and finish...we need more guys like him instead of these “I’m useless unless it’s a spot up three” type of players
     
  9. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    it’s always “we need to continue to do what we do, but better”...”we just gotta hit more shots”...”we just gotta play harder”

    no, no, no...when you’ve been figured out, it’s time to switch things up...we’re always just trying to break through by sheer will...Threes are bricking? Just continue hoisting them up, they’ll fall eventually (in the playoffs, they rarely do)

    Harden is getting doubled and trapped every time? We’ll continue to have him at the top of the key so it can keep happening. Remember when Jeff Green was bringing the ball up, and would hand it off to Harden as he was on the move so that he could go downhill on a scrambling defense? We saw that at times against OKC, but I don’t recall a single instance of that against LA.
     
  10. HoustonWest

    HoustonWest Member

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    It's more stubbornness than arrogance.
     
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  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I think you can be analytical and not arrogant at the same but yes the Rockets as an organization have suffered greatly because of their arrogance.

    Case #1 is their insistence early in the season that the Rockets are just such a great brand that they’ll just magically be able to get great role players on vet min contracts instead of doing the hard work in the summer and paying a little bit of money to get good role players for the entire season.

    They do this every year and it’s nothing but arrogance. They haven’t even competed for solid free agents because of this.

    Also there’s the case of Sergio Lull. Did no one think to actually do some homework to see if the guy even wanted to come to the US? It was just assumed that the Rockets are so great how would he not say yes.

    Then there was the reclamation project years. Where we just assumed that under a quality organization like the Rockets all would be well. Like other NBA are just incompetent. Moreys arrogance cost us some quality picks with deals like the Terrence Williams deal or the Royce White draft pick.

    I love Morey and want him to stay, but he’s got to have a more humble approach moving forward and less naiveté.
     
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  12. Furious Jam

    Furious Jam Contributing Member

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    From Kelly Iko's recent Rockets mailbag at the Athletic:

    The Lakers were able to shut off that isolation valve and force Houston to generate offense elsewhere, which they frankly couldn’t. Part of that has to do with the defensive setup by Frank Vogel (who needs much more praise for that), but also plays into Houston’s defiance and insistence on a Plan A.


    As great as Harden has been for Houston since 2012, he needs to switch things up. Maybe the new coach will be able to start from scratch, but Houston needs more off-ball action and movement from Harden. More of this is coming in a future piece, but it’s time for Harden 2.0. For what it’s worth, Harden might already know it himself.


    “Any position that a coach wants me to do, I can do or I can learn how to do,” Harden said after Game 5. “I’m at the point in my career where there’s nothing I haven’t really seen or I’m not really able to do. And if I’m not great at it, then I can work on it and try to be great at it. So, um, to answer your question, yes, I’m willing to do whatever it takes.”


    Harden incorporating more diverse actions than initiating offense at the top of the key or wings will do wonders for this team come playoff time. But this also means that again, the Rockets will have to look for more capable playmakers. Perhaps Westbrook can handle that responsibility, or House or a new face can. We’ll see.


    What Iko calls "defiance" and "insistence" is actually the arrogance of which I speak.
     
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  13. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Arrogance is expecting a team to play 5 on8 against a historically good team with their second best player sidelined with a hamstring.......and win

    Rocket River.
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    We're good but sometimes others were better.......at adjusting.
     
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  15. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    If we were consistently getting sent home by clearly inferior teams it would be really troubling.

    But we aren’t.

    Talent rules the league.

    We need more of it.

    We once employed a mid range god. We traded him for a mid range doofus.
     
  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    I do not think it's just arrogance but also the urge to just talk talk talk.

    They talk to the media like people talk to barbers.

    From players and MDA up to Morey and Fertitta.

    When will they just shup up for months and listen.....

    'I know exactly what I need to do...' O'really, you made 2nd round yet again, great.

    I have no interest in hearing from you shedding 5 pounds.
     
    #16 daywalker02, Sep 25, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    I can guarantee you that next year the 3rd to 7th seed will be close as ever again.

    They are just trapped in that fight for the second tier without a clear edge.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    The numbers are clear, the height of arrogance is 6"7' or less.

    LRMM, you're out.

    Tyson, go make me a hot pocket and change some lightbulbs, you lanky bastard.
     
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  19. lnchan

    lnchan LeonardTX26
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    The only analytics Tilman cares about is Luxury Tax Savings.
     
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  20. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    With Scott Foster and Tony Brothers both in their prime, no less.
     

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