Ok, so over that sample size, I showed, it shows that yes LIN is better, but by how much over the per 48 stats, it shows that TD would have .2 more steals per game, average almost a point more, but Lin averages almost 10 asst. per 48 mins, while TD is 6.1 asst. TD also still has a worse shooting % per 48 even with Lin shooting so bad, but judging from the percentages on that, still shows them shooting about the same from deep per 48 mins...however Lin gets to the rack more for layups, so that makes since...but 33.7% shooting and just over 20% shooting from 3 Lin needs to figure it out...I know he practices hard, has heart, but I hope he still has the confidence, and hope it is just his legs trying to get back under him to get back to 110%....
You forgot to note that TD is getting slightly more points per 48, but he's taking almost DOUBLE the number of shots, AND shooting at a lower FG% AND 3pt%. And really, I don't think anyone is complaining about putting TD in during regulation. Lin can't play all 48 minute. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is TD playing the ENTIRE Overtime. If Lin isn't injured, AND he's playing well, it makes ZERO sense...
Sampson is really on Douglas nuts. Whenever he mentions JLin, he also has to mention how equally well Douglas is.
As for his 3pt%, it is lower than his normal 31-33% accuracy, however it's STILL higher than TD, Harden, and Patterson...
You're right had 7 asst. in the first half then we stopped running n gunning like we were, and he ended up having 4 the rest of the night...mind you we had a huge what 39 point 2nd qtr. pretty sure Lin got a ton of those 7 in that qtr.... Lin played well, until Lillard went off again, but who is to say those shots would have prob. fallin over DWill too, who knows...Also Lin had I think like 0 TOs in the first half...then had 3 TOs, and I think 2 were just unfortunate, but still it was at a biggg point in the 4th qtr., I thought Harden didn't get near enough calls, and that charge on him, when he made the shot, and it should have been and 1 man that was a HUGE CALL, I regress, but Lin had some calls not go his way..but let me point something out...other than the ATL game the second game of the season, and this past Port. game, Lin got to the foul line for 7-8 FTs, and 5-7 FTs respectively, other than that he has only shot 0, 2, and 3 Foul shots over the other 7 games...so is he not getting all the calls, yes, but why is he not getting to the FT line? He is driving to the hoop...he settles for jump shots at times, but they are never dumb jump shots....He needs to keep driving to the hoop and dish it, or get the foul.... Lin is a penetrating PG that is his strong suit, same with Harden, except Harden has a shot too...But Lin must be getting to the line, and driving for and 1 opportunities for us, and him to succeed, and for Lin to make this team better...Asik is getting to the line, and actually making his FTs, so maybe Asik getting a lot of calls, makes the refs feel like they can't call every foul that Lin, and Harden get...but that's the refs..dirty stuff to try, and keep it "even" espesh when we play on the road...
I'm going to dissect your post a little bit, but don't take it personally ok? It's just for discussion purposes, and it'll help both of us (and perhaps those that read it) analyze the issue better. First of all, you can refer to Torocan's posts regarding Lin vs Douglas's defensive numbers on Synergy. Also his posts on how big of an impact steals make. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7351691#post7351691 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7351765#post7351765 Secondly, being faster and waving your hands around madly like you've had a few red bulls too many doesn't make you a better defender. It just means you're faster and you wave around your hands madly. It may also mean you're putting pressure on the opposing PG, but if it doesn't lead to a low percentage shot or a turnover/steal, it doesn't really mean anything. Lin is a much better defender by funneling players into Asik or traffic, always giving them a bit of space to put up a bad shot, and as a result his defensive numbers are much better. It's smart defense. It doesn't matter what your eyes sees. I know I used to like to see a defender put ball-hawk pressure on a PG 5 ft outside the 3pt line, and look like he can stay with the man, but it does no good in a team defense concept. Thirdly, that Douglas's contract is paid 80% (can't remember the exact number but you've got the right idea) by the NYK does not have anything to do with him outperforming Lin for one game making it a good enough sample size. You can't salary-adjust wins in this league, or salary-adjust points scored on the final box score, so it means nada when the games begin, and it certainly means nada about statistics. Fourthly, Douglas is certainly capable of outplaying Lin on any particular game, he's done it before (the NOH game for sure) and he'll most likely do it again. Back-ups will outperform the starter once in a while, especially when the starter has not been playing well, and playing out of position. Fifth, I don't think Lin has been balling at all. In fact, probably playing as bad as he could, because before tonight against Portland, he was effectively playing spot-up 3pt SG, which is not his game at all. Douglas, on the other hand, played more as a PG and at worst combo guard. You probably couldn't even say Lin played combo guard in the 6 games after the first two. Sixth, I agree with your MVP order for the season so far. So what am I really saying? Like many posters here, you'll throw out Lin's 25 game sample size as too small, but be very quick to say that his recent 8 game sample size (playing out of position, ranked bottom 5 in PGs of the whole league in usage) is enough to judge, and you top it off by finding many reasons such as Douglas's contract being mostly paid by the Knicks to make an argument that he has outperformed Lin for 1 and maybe 2 games so far this year as a credible stat of him outplaying Lin this year. So you can compare the defense stats as provided by Torocan, or the boxscore stats you can get on ESPN on points, rebounds, assists, assists-to-turnover, steals, blocks, FG%, 3Pt%, TS%, and PER, and Jeremy Lin is significantly better than Douglas in most of them, and numbers are pretty similar for some of them. And overall, it is no competition. And that's with Lin playing out of position on offense, taking the statistically worst kind of shots for him. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7352541#post7352541 Look, Lin has not played like the above average PG I believe he is. But he hasn't really been playing PG. Toney Douglas is playing his combo guard role, and he's doing a pretty piss-poor job of it, and it's not unexpected. So yeah, I think you are confusing a game vs a stat. A game is random, a stat needs enough sample size, and even then there will be games outside standard deviations that occurs once in a while, and perhaps even a fat tail that is a black swan, or may fool other people into thinking it is randomness.
Actually, the best bet is a call to the Timberwolves when Rubio returns. They'll be sitting on Ridnour, JJ Brea and Sheved with Rubio expected to get 35-38 minutes per game when healthy. Any one of them would be an upgrade. But ... if the plan is to go into free agency with max cap room ... then we'll see Douglas or Machado for the rest of the year.
Like we talked about, we aren't talking "NORMAL" Lin has such a small sample size that his "normal" is irrelevant bro....TINMAN explained this is the Rockets forum if you want to talk about his "normal" than go to the dish... Exactly he isn't shooting good...you answered that yourself...Harden and Parsons aren't taking bad threes, and they sure aren't airballing wide open threes, against the Heat...but I'm not blaming Lin, he should have driven in to the hoop instead of shot that shot, and he had a layup or pass out to the corner, bc the D would have collapsed... Look I'm not sayin anything about Lin's 3 pt % really...I'm just trying to say that Lin isn't exactly performing that great OH and Harden is getting to the line 10.6 times a night so far, and Lin 3.3 times per night...I'm talking about he needs to get to the line, and play better D, look I know shots will fall for any Professional player...even Toney D had a game with 9 three pointers... I know Lin will end up shooting better, but we are talking about this year, I know in my post I mentioned a blip about maybe it's his knee, and talked about the past for a few words, I was not trying to bring up the past bc this is about the Rockets, and NOW, after HIS INJURY, which was a pretty bad one... Like PP last year he didn't have his legs under him the whole year, this year he at least looks a little better, but he doesn't look as good as he did his rookie year before the injury, and his D, and rebounding aren't as good this year, but maybe that's bc Asik is eating up the boards, and challenging shots...PP has played good D, but he's had a few mis cues so far this year, that is unlike him. I never expected Lin to be good at D..but he gambles at times, and is doing great at stealing away the ball, or batting it loose, and starting the fast break...he has done that well.... I'm not really worried about his 3 pt % BRO., more so wondering why he is only getting to the line 3.3 times a game...and wondering how long it will take him to be back to 110%....I never was like oh wow Lin is here, he is such a great 3 pt shooter, that isn't what Lin is, ya he can shoot it... Going back to your Harden and Parsons comparisons, both of those players regardless of their 3 pt % which for some reason you thought I was making a point about, which I really wasn't...but both those guys are playing way better than Lin, and they are hitting clutch shots, sometimes....or "important" shots...Lin has not except for maybe once or twice this year, made a great clutch shot, the one that sticks in my mind is the play before LBJ got that layup...but whatever I'm sure Lin will come around for all the LOF here, that seem to hate, and bash, and try to say that Lin is the best player on the team, and this and that, etc. etc. just admit he's not playing up to what we signed him for, and thought he would this year, I understand he's young, and we aren't looking at it for just this year, and we are only 9 games in....So then when he starts to ball, the LOF or whatever that seem to just only like one player on the team, Never did I hear YOF or even TOF bash the other players like this "new age of clutchfans" has become (Yes my member thing says I just joined...but I have been around here for a long time, since the beg., lurking, and posting, but lost my old school user name long time ago)....My point is just that there is way to much bashing...if you want to like the Rockets, like them...but the thread was "when will Jlin get better?"-not let's bash other players...bc then that gets people like me that are annoyed with the bickering from I guess LOF, I don't know...just thinking that..but every Lin thread becomes a bash about what someone else's opinion on him not playing very well...I answered the question of the thread in each post that I layed out, even when I was trying to show whoever "just one game" "just one game that he played Jlin out"....I also then went on in each post to explain what he needs to do, and what may be wrong with him (his leg) (and really it is legs, bc while he hurt one knee, he was still off both legs from bball activity for a while) and a knee injury is tough to come back from, he still has a good quick first step, it's just is that the problem, because it seems everyone CAN SEE THERE IS A PROBLEM (even during the pre season BEFORE HARDEN) except for the LOF.... If Harden wasn't miraculously traded to us right before our first game, I think Lin would be REALLY STRUGGLING....Asik and Harden have taken a lot of the weight off of LIN so far this year. Lin not having to bring the ball up everytime might not be everyone's fave, but it helps our Offense to do this...same when we had Sura, and Tmac....or Tmac and Rafer...this is a young team, and this thread is a question of just who knows, we really don't know if he is 110% he doesn't look slow, but he doesn't look like he is jumping very well on jump shots, when he goes to the hoop he finishes well, MOST OF...THE TIME... But anyways really wasn't worried about that 3 pt % bro
He'll get better when we upgrade to even a mediocre coaching staff. This team misuses Lin in such a way, it's laughable.
You've contradicted yourself so many times in your posts. Just read them again. You want people to admit to things you say is 'small sample size', and 'who knows' ... and you certainly don't compare two players by just one game. I'm sure you don't want to be judged on just one bad post, right? And the most convenient excuse of all ... it's the LOF, they make me b**** (effectively what you're saying). And no ... Tinman's thread (we all know which one) was a disgrace. You'd be better off not taking advice from that garbage.
I liked the aggressive way Jlin played today . it was better than his last 2 games. Everything is good except for his shooting.
No I am not- in fact I spoke that Lin is playing good on D by gambling and getting those "important steals" that set up a fast break..no I understand bball well, and have watched the game...Look I gave you two games, you asked for them, from someone else.... I get what you are saying, I don't take offense to it, but if you read my other posts I am not dogging Lin, I am stating the fact that per 48, so far TD, and Lin both aren't playing great...TD is playing well on D, sorry to tell you that, certain match ups, TD can stay with the PGs better than Lin, even with Lin's size.... I'm not for or even saying Lin should not be starting, or saying TD is better bro. I'm just trying to state to the people that keep saying Lin is playing great, or this or that, and then bashes another Rocket to prove their point. (Not saying you, just general anyone in here that does that) I agree with your statement on saying he has underperformed not your exact words, but ya he has balled at times, he is what top 5 in steals right, which you just tried to make a big point on throwing those, threads, and such, which if you fully read my posts, and didn't look at them like I am throwing Lin under the bus, I'm not even mad that he has underperformed, I just hope he gets back to full Linsanity so to speak of course for the Rockets sake at the PG position. I do not agree with all the LOF or whatever, whoever is saying that Lin was being primarily used as a SG spotting up shooting 3's....Look if you want to see a player that was used horribly for his QUITTEN...Look at Scottie just sitting in the corner taking 3's because we had dominant post play in Dream, and Chuckster....ok so just go look, and watch Scottie would shoot threes, and play pretty underperforming, bc he was just "thrown out there" to shoot threes, but then if you look at some of his other games, one of which was against the Lakers game 3 in Quitten's only season with us, him and Barkley each had 30...Pippen was slashing, not just settling for the three etc...so was it Scottie just being a pest, and trying to "follow orders" or was he just upset, and didn't like some players here, so he made that up, that he wasn't used right, yet when he got to Port...hmmm...How funny, they got to the WCF with him playing the same style....I regress on that, but want you to see a player that was "not used correctly"-which I think was on Quitten not Rudy....back to the analogy though.. So through that analogy I speak of, Lin has had the ball in his hands a TON, its prob. 60%-40% bt Lin and Harden I have no idea of the true stat on that...but Lin needs to learn more ways to play bball then just have the ball in his hands...There are other ways for him to make plays espesh when the opponent decides to TOTAL D UP on Harden-Harden usually drives to the hoop, and looks for a foul, or passes it out...Lin can pass on the shot if it gets passed to him, but sometimes he ends up in the corner, and we know he is horrible with the trap!-Lin has not been used wrong sorry to say, but when you have someone like Harden who actually has a season high of 12 asst and had 45 that night too, while Lin just got his season high last night with 11 asst. I think you are also thinking he is just jackin up these threes or something since he just "stands as a spot up shooter in the corner", Lin is only takin just over 3 threes a game...so I just don't buy that he isn't being used well, Harden is far superior in the PnR than Lin, right now which helps create Offense, bc all the D goes all in on Harden...similar to how when Lin gets trapped, every team knows to just go run and trap him, he'll prob turn it over.... I don't see all these "bad shots" that he is taking...I haven't seen him take many bad shots...He isn't jacking up threes, he's taking barely more than 3 a game...He's taking 10.1 FGs a game, so I just don't see these bad shots he is taking...He is missing layups (maybe he's getting hacked PROBABLY), and he has taken some mid range shots, but I've never been like NO DON'T SHOOT THAT! I just don't see that reasoning, and going into your in depth stat analysis, I am an Economist, and work with a lot of stats...so there are many other variables not seen in a stat sheet, YES I KNOW. I'm pretty knowledgable in the field of other variables attributing to things, such as like I said, maybe he needs to get his legs back to under him, that's just one, another variable I see that he needs to fix, is getting to the FT line more. Lin is not Nash....Nash is not Lin...Lin is not a SG you are right...he hasn't really been used as a SG, espesh just bc Harden is bringing the ball up the floor, and setting up a high PnR...it's on every player to not clog any lanes for this play, but to get open in case he dishes it out when the D collapses in. Lin can then get a pump fake in, or take his still quick first step he usually has to get by a defender, and get a better shot, or get fouled....Lin isn't being Quitten out there, or even here ya go if ya watched the late Eddie Griffin. Sorry I don't buy into Lin being played out of position, and it is the coaches fault, or it is Harden's fault. Again I don't think that TD is a starter, in fact, I'd LOVE an upgrade for back up...Lin is in the long term plans, and this is going to be a long year...I ain't even mad Lin is playing bad...but he needs to develop more, and more as a bball player, one thing Lowry always did, was get better each and every off season. Lin was injured, and had to recover so I think it's just Lin will have to keep playing, keep up his OK D at times, and hopefully be a leader in steals per game from his gambling, that turn into fast break opportunities. I just think Lin needs to use his smart BBALL IQ, and keep learning, keep grinding, it'll come....He just isn't living up to his billing, but it's a small sample size of 9 games so far....He'll be ok....And like you said..."It happens to other players as well" People need to get their expectations in check, one other reason you may think Lin is out of place is bc this is a whole new team, and a team with the Coach out on leave...Finch seems to control the Offense. Our Offense in the long run will be similar to the slashing and picks that Rick the Ruler offered in his Offensive pkg. My expectations are that we could make the playoffs, but we are a young team, I am not expecting greatness out of this team this year. Lin is still averaging 10.9 pts and 6.7 asst to go along with his 2.7 steal avgs. He isn't playing horrible, but those aren't bad stats, and if it is just his legs, and that knee getting back, he'll be ok. He'll be ok in the long run no matter what I'm sure he's a smart, young player, that has some promise...An elite PG I doubt it, but a clever, and crafty PG is what I hope he becomes.
You asked for one game so that is why I gave you two...Oh and is 6% points of opponents shooting % really that big of a difference by a player that you say is so great at D....It isn't Lin pushing the PG to Asik, it is Asik making good plays-see here what you did, you are basically saying so Lin makes Asik have better stats in changing/or blocking shots?-That's Asik not Lin...I don't want Lin guarding a player tight 5 feet behind the 3 pt. line, the pick is going to come...he needs to be smarter on how he plays the PnR on D....but anyways You asked for a game, so I gave you two....It had nothing to do with the NYK, I was making the point on why we kept him-bc NYK are paying most of his contract minus like $800,000, or something I forget...has nothing to do with that, just stating the fact that we had to keep him as a back up PG, we have Cook, but apparently we trust TD to be the back up...I dunno about that, but the coaches are the coaches...so my point was to show you what "YOU had asked someone for"- you said "show me show me just one game...." so I did.....I was just adding the NYK stuff to it bc really TD would have been cut, or not playing if the Harden trade didn't go down...but we needed money....only point I was making there was that TD, has played in the L, has not played great, or anything, but he is our back up right now....He isn't eating up Lin's minutes, he isn't taking shots away, Lin is playing 35 mins. a game so... but that was to answer your question on the NYK matter, I was stating we had to for money reasons, he's our back up, and he hasn't played great for us, but he's played decent, and during a lot of the runs during the 9 games, TD has been in while Lin, and/ or Harden rest...so I think he's done a decent back up role Again it ain't like I am sayin Lin sucks, or I don't like Lin, or TD should be a starter, or that even TD is BETTER, he isn't. Lin is young, he has great court vision, def. something TD doesn't have...I agree with some of your other points, and agreements, but I was just posting...and answering questions, in relation to the thread...and your comments....
On Lin, nope I'm not throwing him under the bus read all my posts on that I had three before you replied...anyways we don't talk about his small sample size from NYK like i said in that post bc he is a Rocket now...I do dismiss the sample size...again this thread is titled "when will Jlin get better"- I think he is getting his legs back to NBA level battles. I have also continued to say that Lin will progress...So again I'm glad you can agree with people on certain issues, as I agree with some of your instances of Lin's performance... Never did I say he's a bad PG or even related him to the lower tier PGs of the L....so see when someone not just you, but LOF, or whatever, they seem to read, and just think that people, or me are writing hate on Lin, not so whatever...Never did I say lin sucks, or he shouldn't be starting, or he doesn't deserve his contract because like I said...I ain't even mad....We are the youngest team in the L....I have expectations that are not high for the team..I do think that Lin needs to play better, and I think that he will...IT IS JUST 9 games...LIKE I've said prob 10 times now in my 10 posts now 3 or 4 replied to you. Since preseason, and even the 9 games so far, before the Harden trade for example, people were wondering, before the season started, well is Lin's knee, and legs back to full strength...I think he's getting back to being in the full NBA shape, basically last year was his rookie year in a sense...so in no way am I bashing him, but I'm also not looking to last year and the games he played...I'm only looking at him as a Rocket in the "Houston Rockets forum"
i'm convinced this coaching staff would rather have a steve blake at pg, someone who can watch and hit the occasional three pointer than having a pg that runs an offense. in the mind of sampson: more lin at pg = democratic ball=less harden with ball teen wolf iso> democratic ball
I've been saying this all the time. This scheme needs a shooting PG, aka undersized SG. A trade Lin-Blake trade would make both teams happy. Anytime Lin does play like a PG, the coaches get hot because it blows up their perception of how the offense should look like - and that is Harden playing like MJ.
