Here are the links to segments in today's show. http://houston.cbslocal.com/audio/in-the-loop-with-nick-and-lopez/
Its just nice to know that these analysts, journalist, reporters, etc don't have a monopoly on "wide audience" anymore. Folks like us who don't work for the media have an outlet to refute/comment on things being claimed in the national media and have it seen by a lot of people.
I like Nick Wright and think he's pretty thoughtful in his analysis. I have no issue with him taking Sam Amick's "side" . . . although I believe there may not really be any SIDES to the actual issue between Sam and me as I saw it (which is probably not the same thing as the issue as Sam saw it). Sadly, 140 characters is not nearly enough space to provide the nuance needed to properly convey most criticism/argument. It could be that what Sam (or Nick or someone else) read into my tweets is not what I meant. Thanks, Junkyard Dog, for providing a link to the show's podcasts. However, I have neither the time nor the inclination to surf through all of them looking for Nick's comments about me. However, if someone can clue me into the podcast (and time within that podcast) that the issue is discussed, I'll give it a listen. I'm fairly sure Nick was not disrespectful to me and that (assuming his assumption of what point I was trying to make is correct) his analysis is very good.
These are the times when Clutchfans must band together. As if rivalry with other fans isn't enough, now we are brewing a rivalry with the national media! It's amazing how much disrespect and bias there is towards Houston, and to speak out against it is called a "persecution complex". Guess they have everything wrapped up in a nice bow.
Its unbelievable. In any other industry, you would get fired for spitting in the face of 1/30th of your customer base publicly. With these guys.. its now the cool thing to do. Just shows you how immature grown adults with keyboards can be, and how a Twitter account and 2 followers can give you an unbelievable god-complex.
Josh will be where Josh wants to be. If he feels this part-year has been worthy why would he leave? I realize half of say $2.5m more is still a lot of green, but still: Josh will be where Josh wants to be.
It's embarrassing that BimaThug would say this when he's one of the biggest homers on this website. Minus the salary cap stuff, he does nothing but post pro-Maury propaganda. There is a small minority within ClutchFans that posts objective analysis. BimaThug, you're not part of that group.
... Kwame, you just broke the delusion meter. If you don't understand the value that BT's analysis brings to this board, it's your loss. In your opinion, do you also consider Clutch to be spewing "pro-Maury propaganda" in his podcasts with BT? Why are you even on this board anyway??
There's nothing delusional about it except for those who have selective memory. I have a problem with a guy who claims to be critical of Maury, but all he does is praise him. He's actually so sensitive when it comes to those who criticize Maury that he even started a thread about how he thinks we should go about debating the job Maury has done. I guess you didn't remember that: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=203915 Now the same BimaThug is claiming the he's "known w/in Rockets community as a largely objective & rational voice," which is false. That's what I have a problem with. In relation to the rest of the issues you raised, Clutch has gone on record multiple times with critical analysis of players, the organization, and the moves they have made. Last, I know this is a fan site and homerism is expected, but I'm here for objective discussions and quality analysis regarding the Rockets and the NBA.
Kwame, you are entitled to your opinion of me and what you think my opinions are. Fair enough. But just because I mostly post positive things about Morey and the Rockets doesn't mean that I blindly follow him and live to spew endless pro-Morey/Rockets propaganda. I don't post on the BBS very often other than to answer salary cap questions. When the Rockets make a roster move, I usually try to look at it from the Rockets' standpoint and give whatever rationale I think the team has for making that move. Sometimes I am skeptical. Sometimes I am ecstatic. There are also many times when the Rockets do something I may not like but where I may not feel up to posting on this BBS. Maybe I'm just too pissed off to do it. Maybe I express my frustrations "off-line" instead. Truth is, if you follow me on Twitter (where I do most of my Rockets-related communicating), you will see me regularly post in-game tweets critical of coaches and players in various instances. Also, thank you for posting the link to my old "Morey categories" thread, in which I listed various situations in which I hated moves that Morey made. While I'm sure that thread (and much of what I say in it) is somewhat dated, I'll stand by my overall position. While I'm sure you are not alone in believing me to be a mealy-mouthed propaganda machine, I will continue in my assumption that the majority of Rockets fans who know me will disagree with your characterization of me.
For the record, here's the old list Bimathug posted of acquisitions the Rockets made that he either didn't like or hated: What I like about looking back on things like this is you can see whether or not a person has basketball merit. When I peruse this self-confessed, self-publicized list of things that Bima disagreed with the Rox on and what he would have done instead I see many quality moves that we would have been better off with. Personally, I was with him on Splitter over Brooks. Could not understand why we drafted a midget PG when Splitter was there. When we traded for Landry I didn't even know who the guy was. Then when I looked him up and seen he was undersized and had a major injury I thought Morey was nuts. Omer and DeAndre over Dorsey was a no-brainer. I wanted Omer. Didn't like DeAndre or Dorsey. The only things I disagree with Bima on his list was the Rafer trade and the Battier trade. I hated Rafer's on-court game and loved Lowry. Thought it was strange timing. But when they finally announced the Lowry end of it...which initially they didn't announce that piece of it....I was at work and let out a war whoop. As far as Battier....that was a handwriting on the wall move. Didn't like it but understood it. Anybody with a rational mind should be able to see that Bima is not a Moreyite and he does have good, valid opinions concerning player personnel. He is much more than a capologist. He's pretty good knowing the game too and evaluating talent and fair value for players. He's independent in his opinions and nobody owns him. I, for one, hate it that we don't get more input from him on non-salary cap stuff. But instead we have to read page after page of crap from posters wanting to attack other poster's opinions instead of asking questions and discussing their opinions on basketball related matters like mature adults. The only 2 downsides about Bima are: 1) he's too picky about how you talk to him. You can't just talk like boyz and tell fart jokes and what not. He gets all disturbed by that stuff and becomes irrational. And 2) he likes to ply you to find out what inside information that you know without giving you any inside info back. Other than that he's a valuable asset to this board that we aren't getting full value out of because he keeps his opinions on players, coaches, etc. too much to himself.
I have no problem with the salary cap information you provide, but my issue is with you holding yourself up as a paragon of objectivity. You've said that you were critical of past moves made by the front office in general and Maury in particular after that fact (basketballholic post verifies that), but I've never read any actual criticism by you when a move takes place. It's generally praise or occasional skepticism. However, when you say you're "skeptical," you leave out the part about you always giving the organization and Maury "the benefit of the doubt." That is much closer to blind support than critical analysis. I don't have twitter, but maybe I'll start following you a little on there. Thanks for the reply. Well there are over 50,000 members on ClutchFans so it's going to be a relatively large number but a small percentage. I'd rather not list names, because that could lead to more controversy. We can discuss it in private if you'd like. Some don't post on here anymore. Others occasionally make cameo appearances. There are guys that I really don't agree with on much, but they seem pretty objective. There are also those that are good at providing strong analysis in a neutral manner that post on a regular basis. But I focus more on posting style and substance in terms of being able to provide legitimate critiques instead of the same old "In Maury We Trust" mantra rather than a person's screen name I've even given rep to people I disagree with in the past, because of the way they carried themselves during a debate.
I actually think that praise or skepticism is the appropriate immediate reaction for an objective person to almost any move made by an NBA team. Even badly run teams. NBA teams, as a general rule, are not run by blithering idiots. So, it is rare they make a move that doesn't have at least some rationale behind them. Consequentially, you'll rarely find a team makes a move that is immediately known to be a horrible move for them. It may be a move that ends up being a huge blunder, and you may have a good argument for why the move is unlikely to be beneficial; but to assume this will be the case from the outset and say the move is therefore a major FAIL isn't what I'd call objective. Skepticism, in these circumstances, makes more sense. On the other side, teams do often make moves which are immediately known to be advantageous, sometimes strongly advantageous. In these circumstances, praise is warranted even when one is being objective. That said, the true test of objective, critical analysis IMO should not be based on what one's immediate reaction is, but rather how they analyze things after enough information has been gathered.
Great discussion my friends. So much quality stuff within this discussion and much of it has nothing to do with the Rockets but more to do with the thought process of a fan and what defines objectivity. Both sides make very good points. I consider myself an objective fan that will criticize Morey if warranted. Problem is more often than not I agree with Morey and most of his trades and free agent acquisitions tend to pay dividends. I'm also a fan of the Bengals in the NFL and criticize the hell out of their front office. It all depends on who you are criticizing. We have arguably the best GM in the NBA so there isn't much to criticize. My 2 cents.
I think immediately critiquing a move is just as valid and legitimate if you have the facts, examples, and evidence to support the criticism. Also, for every person that believes a move is immediately advantageous, there will be those out there that offer critical analysis explaining why the move will have a negative effect as well. It's difficult to rationalize ostensibly irreconcilable positions in which it's appropriate to heap instant praise because of a perceived benefit that a move is supposed to bring while discounting the idea that a move can also have a sudden detrimental impact despite the good intentions of those who made it. In the end, I take no issue with either side as long as they have logic behind what they say. But repeating the phrase "In Maury We Trust" or some derivative of it, does not fall under the category of rational thought and objective analysis.
Wow you have no problem with the Salary cap information he gives?? That is very nice of you All the Clutchfans posters should thanks BT on our knees for the great information he gives us. You attacking him like that was uncalled for. That being said you complaining about someone’s (and not just anybody but a respected poster like BT) about objectivity is really calling the kettle black. You are one of the most negative posters on this board (and then I am not including the trolls, since you are not a troll just a very negative minded poster). I am a big Morey supporter so my guess is you also think I am not objective. But while I think Morey is a very good GM (and better than most Gm’s in the league) I do see the mistakes that he made (Not resigning Dragic, and signing Lin, and this summer not signing Lowry but going after Anthony). The difference is that I think the positives outweigh the negatives and I can understand why Morey did these things. You saying that giving Morey the benefit of the doubt is giving blind support. I disagree with you on that. When someone gets Harden and Howard without tanking you give him a little leeway and the benefit of the doubt. Of course if he makes more mistakes than good moves or makes more mistakes than other GMs than he loses this benefit of the doubt.
kwame, For purposes of context here, why don't you share with us what your opinion of Morey is and how you arrived at that opinion?
