Info re the debate of who was behind the Battier/Gay trade

really really wish people would stop saying this. the fact that gay was available when we drafted is enough. he was by far the most talented player on the board when we drafted and he slipped through our fingers.

the portland example again: do you think trailblazer fans take any solace in their team passing on jordan for sam bowie because they were drafting for size instead of competency? do you think trailblazer fans say things like "jordan never would've developed the same way on a deeper portland team?" I seriously doubt that they do or ever did.

 

I can kinda see what you are saying here. That Rudy Gay + 6 million dollar Swift salary = Battiers contract in terms of how much strain in puts on our cap situation. Which is true, and then when you consider Gay is better than Battier, the fact that we got rid of Swifts contract isn't as big a deal, right? Wrong.

Two key factors you are missing here:
1. We traded for Artest. Gay is about to come OFF his rookie contract and he's going to want to get paid. There is no way in HELL we could afford Gay AND Artest. And I would rather have Artest. I know what you are going to say too "well, we didn't know we were going to get Artest back then. Hindsight is 20:20". But the thing is, we didn't know Gay was going to get this good this fast either, so in that regard hindsight is 20:20 as well. The fact of the matter is, if we keep Gay, I SERIOUSLY doubt we go after Artest. We wouldn't even go after a Mo Williams with Bjaxs expiring, because his contract would put a strain on our cap situation with Gay too. We would've just let him walk most likely. Same with Swifts theoretical expiring. We aren't going to make a monster trade for some guy because with 3 guys making over 10 million (Tmac making 20).

2. When Battier's contract ends in 2 years, we can have the home team discount. He'll be into his 30s by that point and we could probably land him for cheap assuming we are still good (which we should be). If we had Swifts contract the best we could do is trade him for an equal contract, which I already addressed in the earlier post, wouldn't happen because we have to make room for Gay.

So to sum it all up, before the Artest trade you were absolutely right. But now that we've traded for Artest, we are actually better off having traded for Battier.

 

fixed.

 

Why Detroit? If he's suddenly let into the FA market. Sure, some might offer him the MLE, but he would probably come back here for a little less money because he likes it here.

 

http://www.nba.com/rockets/chat_mailbox/battier_060728.html

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=120583

 

Awww suxors. If we could land Battier for an even cheaper deal I would be loving it. Especailly if Artest remains a Rocket and those two become a dynamic switching zone bythemselves duo! LoL.

agentkirb87, your Two key factors you are missing here:, is awesomely put, lets hope peeps will actually understand it instead of cyring over spilt milk continuously. Because really? I would take Artest and his attitude and Battier over Gay and Swift. Nuf said!

 

Now that they have "righted the wrong", it doesn't matter. Gater, myself and other already had enough information to know that was morey's move all the way. If u can add, it didn't even seem like a Dawson move at all. Think about the upside players that Dawson had been drafting or trading for. If you go to the few lotto yrs Dawson had, you will see gamble players. Horry was a atheletic center who might could play forward. Eddie Griffin was the most talented player in his draft class, but he had issues. He traded for Francis, a atheletic combo guard who might can be a pg. He signed Swift another atheletic 6'9 guy at the 4. Then after missing out on Roy, the most talented player in the draft, a guy who probably should go 1st on raw talent drops in your lap and you trade him and the guy u just signed for a guy that has no upside? That wasn't his move at all. Plus I remember JVG saying he didn't have a preference either way. He was there to coach the players he had. Deal is as much as people hate swift and his contract, it would have anything to do with getting Artest. In fact, swift contract would be a expiring just like Jackson's deal. It doesn't matter that they were wrong because at least they had enough gumption to make it right.

 

I don't think Battier goes to Detroit. First of all, Detroit would still have to be good when his contract runs out, and I don't think that is the case. Sheed might very well be gone in a year or two. Billups is getting older, and while they have solid role players, they don't have a young Monta Ellis/Dwayne Wade type of star that can take the reins from Billups and Hamilton as they get older.

And I have a feeling that once its established that the Pistons are no longer championship contenders in the next few years, Battier would rather just stay with us. He probably wants to finish his career there, but only if they are a good team. There is no point in finishing his career there if they are trying to rebuild (plus, would Detroit want him if they are trying to rebuild?).

 

It's JVG fault. Case closed

 

Just wanted to point out that the Pistons do have a young stud in the making. Rodney Stuckey is going to be great.

 

Eh... he might he might not. Monta Ellis might've been a bad example because he kinda came out of nowhere, but I was refering to your Dwayne Wades or Tim Duncans that based on play, you know eventually they are going to be the face of the team. They are just waiting for the old guy to leave/retire (Shaq or Robinson in this case). Maybe Stuckey will be a good player, but he won't be the leader of the Pistons for sure based on what we've seen from him. You can't make that prediction right now. Thats like saying Landry and Brooks are the future faces of the Rockets.

I don't really want to start an argument over "will Stucky be a great player", but I think I've proven my point about the Pistons being on the decline in a few years as their stars get older and older.

 

They also have another young stud in Jason Maxiell. Actually, they're full of young and veteran talent.

Billups 31
Rip 30
Prince 28
Sheed 33
McDyess 33
Stuckey 22
Maxiell 25
Amir Johnson 21
Afflalo 22
Hermann 29

If Battier wants to play in his hometown, I wouldn't begrudge him for it. While it's so far away, i don't think the Pistons will stink in 3 years.

 

Rodney Stuckey is one player we could have gotton but we would have had to give up a piece for him I think.

 

this is exactly my point. complain about Battier if you want, or the fact that the trade was made, if you want, but don't complain about the fact that we traded Gay for Battier. We didn't. The team traded a draft pick for Battier.

Again, you can complain about their poor drafting/scouting if you want, too...by all means, go ahead, but the Rockets, had they kept the pick, would have drafted someone else. And while I definitely have questioned their drafting over the last decade, the last 2 years, at least, seem to be okay (Landry, Brooks then Dorsey and the events leading to Artest).

I can certainly say, in hindsight, they were idiots for not rating Gay higher and just outright drafting him. But then, you'd only draft Roy ahead of him today, so 6 other teams screwed that one up, too, and that wasn't the only "scouting" mistake by our team that year. Might as well complain about drafting Novak, too. After all, Paul Milsap was drafted 15 spots later int he second round and would have been a much better pick...in hindsight.

Regardless, the point is, the information in the original post can't be very accurate, as all reports don't even have the Rockets making a decision between Battier and Gay, but rather Battier and whomever they had next on their board at that point (rumored to be Thabo, since Roy was gone).

What's more, it's plainly obvious, to me at least, that had they actualy drafted Thabo and then traded him instead of Gay (i.e. - Thabo was the guy Memphis wanted), and he turned out to be what he is - mediocre at best - then we'd have had years of "great trade" threads with a few mixed in "they should have just drafted Gay" threads - the conversation on this topic would be way different, even though the Rockets front office would have done nothing different.

 

this artful interpretation is frustrated by one simple truth. We traded Gay for Battier.

 

look, this isn't complicated.

we let Memphis tell us who to draft, and traded that player for Battier.

Had Memphis wanted any other player other than Gay and that trade was made, there'd be a completely different conversation about this trade on this board. meaning what exactly? i don't know...I guess just take the "analysis" of the "Gay-Battier" trade - that was never really that trade - with a grain of salt.

again, not that complicated. sorry it's a difficult concept for you to figure out.

 

Agreed. They F'd up but Morey fixed it with the Artest acquisition.

 

agreed. we traded Gay for Battier.

 

I would have prefered Rudy over Battier. Esp. now that we have Artest we could of had a line-up like:

Tmac
Rudy
Artest
Scola
Yao

Now imagine THAT!

I also wished we could have kept Gerald Greene. I mean they can both shoot the three and finish at the rim. WTF Daryl!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! Battier is over-rated: he sucks on NBA 2k8 too just to add that. Can't score a for nothing and misses too many threes.

 

Which one of the players you have shown here would play the PG position?

How well would this group function offensively?