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vator is offline Old 01-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #1
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Some of us grow attached to players on the Rockets and when they are no longer with the team, we like to remember all of the good times. I won't lie, there are several guys that I was sad to see go from last year's team. As I continued to follow those guys, I noticed guys putting up decent stats, but their teams lose. Does anybody else ever find it interesting how our beloved "difference makers" often find themselves in situations where their respective teams not only lose, but maybe even dare I say underachieve? This year I'm referring to Dragic, Scola, Lowry, and Courtney Lee in particular. Instrumental members of our past few teams. Also, Chuck Hayes, Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry up until this year have all been on terrible teams after leaving the Rockets. Honestly, when I look at the rosters of their teams, I don't see much if any difference in talent on their respective rosters from what they played with here. So how can guys like Dragic and Scola leave a winning yet mediocre team here and go to PHX and the team be so damn bad if they are truly as good as we thought they were? Are these players that we are so fond of maybe a little bit overrated in our minds? Is it coaching? Morey's ability to put players together that compliment each other? You tell me. I can't figure it out.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have our team this year. Harden and the team as a whole are surpassing all the expectations of the so called experts out there. Is Harden's supporting cast superior to what those other guys that were here last year have right now? I personally don't believe so. When you think of a superstar level player you think of a guy who can be an MVP candidate. A guy who has the ability to lift a team up. Harden has some things to improve upon certainly, but I think you can make a case that he does the oh so cliche "make the guys around him better" thing.

Note: I didn't include Kevin Martin because he is on a team with two top 15 players, but it is fair to mention that when he was the man in Sacramento, they were also terrible.

Fact is this team may possibly be overachieving and is making a case for what Morey has been saying subtly all along. He wanted to stockpile "assets" not to hoard them, but to trade them for a true difference maker. It doesn't matter if you trade 4 or 5 of these "assets" for 1 true "foundational player" because once you have one, it is much easier to fill in the pieces around that kind of player. This is why you amnesty a Scola and trade a Lowry, Jeremy Lamb, and future draft picks.

Thoughts?

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daywalker02 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 01:58 AM   #2
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Kevin Martin was constantly ranked outside of the Top 20 players....by ESPN and other media

the best I guess was somewhere between 32-45

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OremLK is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:02 AM   #3
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Dragic is having a nice season, he's just on a crappy team. Scola is also playing at pretty normal levels for his career. Lowry has struggled with injury but is playing well otherwise. Martin is playing well off the bench for OKC.

They're all good starting caliber players but none of them are stars. Dragic may still evolve into one though.
 
glacier921 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:04 AM   #4
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Lowry and Dragic are certainly overrated. I never understood how you clutchfans could have liked them, especially lowry. I was pissed when he replaced Brooks. I was like, what? Why? Brooks shot so well from the 3 and such a good shooter. But yea, a lot of those players overrated. This is the best team since Yao and T-mac were both healthy.
 
rolyat93 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:06 AM   #5
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Lowry and Dragic are certainly overrated. I never understood how you clutchfans could have liked them, especially lowry. I was pissed when he replaced Brooks. I was like, what? Why? Brooks shot so well from the 3 and such a good shooter. But yea, a lot of those players overrated. This is the best team since Yao and T-mac were both healthy.
Lowry replaced Brooks because he was way better than him.

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glacier921 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:06 AM   #6
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Lowry replaced Brooks because he was way better than him.
Saw those splashes with Brooks. I thought Brooks was better.
 
rolyat93 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by glacier921 View Post
Saw those splashes with Brooks. I thought Brooks was better.
For sure, his offensive game was very fun to watch at times.

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flamingdts is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glacier921 View Post
Lowry and Dragic are certainly overrated. I never understood how you clutchfans could have liked them, especially lowry. I was pissed when he replaced Brooks. I was like, what? Why? Brooks shot so well from the 3 and such a good shooter. But yea, a lot of those players overrated. This is the best team since Yao and T-mac were both healthy.
First of all, they are not overrated. They are both having very good seasons. Lowry has had a few injuries but he is still making huge impacts on the court.

Second of all, Lowry replacing Brooks is an absolute brainless decision and trading Brooks for Dragic and a draft pick was an absolute steal. Lowry played better than Brooks ever did.
 
SRR21 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #9
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No matter who the player is if the Coach isn't running a system that fits their skillset they will fail. Suddenly Gasol cant score 6 pts? A.Johnson gets fired and JWill goes off? Lowry isn't a starter?
 
Outlier is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #10
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Saw those splashes with Brooks. I thought Brooks was better.
We found DD.
 
glacier921 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:18 AM   #11
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We found DD.
Who's DD?
 
vator is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:20 AM   #12
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Dragic is having a nice season, he's just on a crappy team. Scola is also playing at pretty normal levels for his career. Lowry has struggled with injury but is playing well otherwise. Martin is playing well off the bench for OKC.

They're all good starting caliber players but none of them are stars. Dragic may still evolve into one though.
But is his team worse than the one he was on here last year player for player? I say not on paper. Is his supporting cast worse than Harden's right now? I don't think so. Lets compare. Assuming Harden and Dragic are the best players on their respective teams, the supporting cast is...


Asik - Gortat
Patterson - Scola
Parsons - Dudley
Lin - Shannon Brown
M. Morris - M. Morris
Douglas - Telfair
Delfino - Beasley
Smith - J. O'Neal

I can't see how anybody could definitively say that either of those rosters is better than the other if you didn't have the bias of knowing that one team was 19-14 and the other was 12-22. I feel the same way about the Raptors roster. They have some decent talent on that team.

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vator is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SRR21 View Post
No matter who the player is if the Coach isn't running a system that fits their skillset they will fail. Suddenly Gasol cant score 6 pts? A.Johnson gets fired and JWill goes off? Lowry isn't a starter?
So are you saying McHale is doing a good job coaching and getting the best out of his roster? Fact is that both Lowry and Dragic flourished in his system.

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glacier921 is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by vator View Post
But is his team worse than the one he was on here last year player for player? I say not on paper. Is his supporting cast worse than Harden's right now? I don't think so. Lets compare. Assuming Harden and Dragic are the best players on their respective teams, the supporting cast is...


Asik - Gortat
Patterson - Scola
Parsons - Dudley
Lin - Shannon Brown
M. Morris - M. Morris
Douglas - Telfair
Delfino - Beasley
Smith - J. O'Neal

I can't see how anybody could definitively say that either of those rosters is better than the other if you didn't have the bias of knowing that one team was 19-14 and the other was 12-22. I feel the same way about the Raptors roster. They have some decent talent on that team.
This team is better because of our backcourt right now. Lin as the QB and Harden as the scoring option. Our 14 losses was due to Mchale not trusting Lin, and giving the ball only to Harden. That's why we had so many close loses. Think of it this way, Dwane Casey stripped Lowry of his starting job for Calderon, and yes, Casey used the same analogy, Calderon is the Raptors QB. Same thing here in Houston, Lin may not score 20 plus ppg, but he's our QB. Calderon > Lowry, Lin > Lowry. End of story.
 
CheukLau is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:25 AM   #15
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Goal, organizational culture, locker room and coaching style.
 
CheukLau is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:29 AM   #16
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The goals of Suns and Raptors are definitely not winning the NBA champion. Their locker rooms are more friendly (less competitive.) And their playing time is given rather than earned.
 
vator is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:32 AM   #17
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I guess you would lump the Kings in that as well. I'm just fascinated how our good players leave here and go to other teams and those teams continue to lose. Makes me wonder just how much impact they truly have on wins and losses. Some guys put up hollow stats. We saw a couple tonight in the Bucks backcourt.

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meh is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:35 AM   #18
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Surely you jest. Every clutchfan know that McFail is the worst coach ever and that players were dying to get away with from his constant fail.
 
flamingdts is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by glacier921 View Post
This team is better because of our backcourt right now. Lin as the QB and Harden as the scoring option. Our 14 losses was due to Mchale not trusting Lin, and giving the ball only to Harden. That's why we had so many close loses. Think of it this way, Dwane Casey stripped Lowry of his starting job for Calderon, and yes, Casey used the same analogy, Calderon is the Raptors QB. Same thing here in Houston, Lin may not score 20 plus ppg, but he's our QB. Calderon > Lowry, Lin > Lowry. End of story.
You are the same guy who rationalized that Lin deserved to be in All-star over Kobe right?
 
hooroo is offline Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 AM   #20
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The Suns are terrible. They are the Rockets before the Harden trade but with worse speculative foundational players, ie Beasley instead of Royce White. Gortat can be Dalmbert-esque. Their second best wing player is Shannon Brown, 'nuff said.
 

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