Captured on video: Cops shoot and kill white man with hands up in Texas

There is evidence that can support this idea. The same evidence can also be looked at differently, and a different conclusion reached when other factors are considered, but at least things like incarceration rate and sentence length relative to a control group are some evidence for the concept being discussed.

I don't understand how you can see no difference between those bits of evidence, which you have conveniently labeled "objective evidence" and a self-reported survey in which people answer whether or not they feel they have been mistreated by the police. That is the breakdown. The claim I was making is that this separate survey of feeling evidence is not the same as the other category of "objective evidence". People's feelings about something cannot be used to prove facts. I feel that the earth orbits the sun. 25% of America disagrees with me. That 25% of America is not strong evidence that I might be wrong, because their thoughts on the matter do not change the fact that the earth orbits the sun, nor do my feelings about it. A self-reported survey of feelings is useless to establish facts.

What did I call okay?

I made two assertions, and I don't know which you are attacking here. First, that the survey is not credible evidence of mistreatment, and instead reflects feelings of mistreatment. Since it is a self-reported survey about someone's subjective interpretation of an event, I think I am on pretty firm ground with that assertion. Second, I asserted that I don't think 60% of black Americans have been mistreated by the police, and admitted while doing so that I was not supporting this with any evidence and this was my view from my limited experiences.

I actually think there is, in the aggregate, mistreatment of black people by the police at a rate greater than seen in other race. I was taking issue only with the survey as a method of proving it and the results of the survey being presented as proof that 60% of black Americans have been mistreated by police.

 

Maybe it's the video, but one of the deputies seems absurdly fat. I've seen very fat officers and deputies before. This shouldn't be allowed. But it leads back to the quality of candidates they attract, considering the pay.

 

I don't see the size of the U.S. being an issue. Police departments are always local things, so, whether we are talking about the U.S. with thousands of communities and local police departments or whether we are talking about a small nation with hundreds, the scalability is really the same.

As for your other criticisms:

1) Again, I don't think massive size is an issue (he he he), because police departments are always local organizations, regardless of how large the nation the communities are in are. As for the splinter groups -- I am not saying to completely get rid of the Federal agencies, but to completely reorganize the nature of local police forces. That said, Feds are the ones who proactively monitor the extremist groups you mentioned, and the community police I suggest could handle the reactive role local police currently have in the matter.

2) I am not actually advocating no police force, but rather a completely restructured and reconceptualized police force based on advancing and enlarging the concept of community policing.

3) Agreed -- but, if being unevolved and having a propensity for violence is an issue in the population, why would you imbue some of the individuals that are so unevolved and violent with power over the lives and liberty of others? Seems like a great way to end up with a police brutality issue in your society.

4) Civic minded people like myself would want to do it, as would a lot of young lay people who are currently under employed and unemployed. And, while corruption could still exist (as could instances of overuse of force), I think both would be drastically and systematically reduced to a qualitative and not just quantitative degree.

 

I think the change in policing could be accomplished without retooling every single police force in the country. Perhaps require civilian oversight boards so that we aren't expecting citizens to do a job for which they aren't trained, but still give the people an opportunity to have more visibility when it comes to police misconduct.

Yes, but in addition to higher rates of mistreatment, black people face worse outcomes even in cases where no actual mistreatment takes place. The system itself appears biased racially, and that is a situation we must address as a society.

To be fair, our entire society faces what I would call "mistreatment" by the criminal justice system in that too many of us are incarcerated, and a large component of that is what HamJam referred to as "victimless crimes," primarily the drug war.

Mostly, things that are currently classified as criminal which involve two or more completely willing participants.

This is almost entirely an issue created by prohibition. In a regulated market, we can create safeguards to help reduce the incidence of prostitutes becoming victims. Basically, as long as the buyer and the seller are willing participants, it should be legal. As soon as one of the participants is unwilling, they are being victimized, meaning that the situation is no longer "victimless."

In an incredibly small percentage of cases. Most of the "awful things" to which you refer are also products of prohibition rather than of drug use itself. In addition, many of these problems can be mitigated in a regulated market where they tend to be exacerbated when the market participants are considered criminals.

Nope, I would argue that getting in a car while inebriated is directly and immediately putting others at risk without warning. This risk introduces the possibility of victims in a direct and foreseeable way and as such should be criminal.

While you are correct that the self-report should not be taken as evidence that 60% of African Americans have suffered actual mistreatment at the hands of law enforcement, you are ignoring the true point, which is that 60% of African Americans who answered this survey feel as if they have been mistreated by police. The survey points out a huge problem and certainly provides valuable contextual information even if it cannot be used as statistical evidence of mistreatment rates.

 

I am not talking about any survey - I am talking about the actual statistics on how blacks get worse punishment for the same crime or are more likely to be stopped / profiled or more likely to be searched when stopped. That's not from a survey.

 

It is nice that you are not talking about a survey, but you were replying to a post that was, quite clearly, talking about a survey. I am quite sorry I didn't read your mind and know that when you criticized my post that was talking about a survey, and specifically that part most directly related to the survey, that you were in fact somehow not talking about a survey. Survey.

 

Is that Mike Barajas' kid?

 

It has been over a month, the case has been handed over to the DA and the 2nd video, which was a closer view with clearer video will not be released (Police Dept won't release it).

Two anonymous law enforcement said the 2nd video shows Flores with a knife in his hand.

How long does it take the DA to decide what to do? If they never release this 2nd video and the case never go to court, no one is going to believe them.

http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/arch...ow-in-das-hands-second-video-wont-be-released

Again, a lack of a complete independent body to investigate police while there is conflict of interest is going to leave the public not trusting the results, even if the cop is indeed justify in his actions.