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Thoughts about Jimmy butler acquisition

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by snowconeman22, May 17, 2019.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    In this very unlikely supposed universe where Jimmy Butler opts in and is traded to us ..... we have to match the incoming salary to a certain degree .

    I'm assuming we keep CP3 nor does philly want him . So 2/3 of Clint , PJ , and Eric are gone with maybe another guy in as filler (I think)

    My question is who do we want to trade ? 2/3 our best players this last series are on the list . Eric and PJ both played great . Pj was better IMO but pj is also 34 . Eric has always been injury prone and PJ has been a workhorse .

    Clint seems to be the odd man out , but he's also the youngest .... and the big one , does philly even want him ? They already have embiid . This requires a third team and as we know that is an IMMENSE complicating factor .

    The point is , even in the even that we can pull off a butler deal ... there are going to be serious losses our roster will have to sustain .

    I guess the miracle situation is that you find a third team who will take Clint and give a matching salary the 76'ers don't mind. Maybe that plus filler is enough for butler . I'm not sure what the rules for an opt-in-and trade are . I'm sure bima will write up a post sometime in the future .

    What are y'alls dream or realistic butler
    Scenario ?

    Next step , how do you built the team from there ?

    Vet min Deandre Jordan ?
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I think Capela can be replaced somewhat by a guy like Jordan

    If we get Butler, I don't think we need Gordon. Just find some more good role players like Rivers or house
     
  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Am I the only one that thinks Harden+CP3+Butler isn't the best fit?

    I'd rather move Tucker to SF and get a legit PF that can rebound, finish pick and roll, pick and pops, hit a three or create on their own. That's obviously asking a lot...

    But I don't see how adding another guy to "create" from the outside in helps that much when our problem has been rebounding and a crappy and too small, small ball 5???

    I'm not saying I wouldn't take Butler - take what you can get - or that EG is better than him. But EG is another guy that is an outside in guard creator. Butler would be somewhat better there, but as you have to give to get, keep in mind it's not just adding Butler to this squad, it'd be adding Butler while loosing EG and a Capela or Tucker type.

    Like what is Butler going to do different when he gets the ball with 5 second on the clock, or when he has it to create on his own and Harden is 10 feet behind the three point line?

    I wish DM would consider fit more than just blindly lusting after every potential all-star like guy that will come our way.

    And in any case, OP's point is correct. You got to give to get.
     
  4. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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    PJ Tucker will not be included in any Butler trade.

    It will either be EG+Nene or Capela+Nene

    And the MLE will be used to fill a need.
     
  5. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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    I posted this in another thread but can drop it here too.


    Proposed *3-Team* Jimmy Butler trade *with the assumption he tells Philly to trade him to Houston for a trade package of assets or else he will walk and they get nothing for him.*

    HOUSTON
    IN - Butler, Spellman
    OUT - Capela, Nene
    WHY: Re-allocate Capela’s salary into a star player in Jimmy Butler. Omari Spellman is a cheap, young range shooting 4/5 that would fit in well off the bench (Rockets get Spellman in a 2nd/follow-up trade using a Trade Exception). Follow up this trade this summer and use MLE on DAJ to be your starting center against most NBA teams. Can flex to Tuckwagon lineup vs GSW etc. Rockets keep Eric Gordon in this scenario but he still is a valuable asset if they need to make another move. Rockets DO NOT give up ANY 1st round picks here. More moves below.

    ATLANTA
    IN - Capela, Nene, Simmons
    OUT - Bazemore, Prince, Spellman
    WHY: Bazemore and his salary are not in their plans. They wanted to move on from Prince. They get Capela to mesh with Trae Young as a PNR big and play alongside John Collins. He fits the team timeline and is under a good contract. This is Atlanta’s big summer move (instead of FA) and they can focus on the draft and their 2 top 10 picks.

    PHILLY
    IN - Bazemore, Prince
    OUT - Butler, J. Simmons
    WHY: Philly did NOT give up a 1st to get Butler. They do NOT get a 1st in trading him away. BUT, they get 2 players that are versatile that fit their system and can shoot. Prince is still young and is the replacement for Covington that they lost. Bazemore gives them some bench depth that is needed. And they give up J. Simmons as a salary dump since he didn’t work out.


    ROCKETS
    PG: CP3 / Rivers / Chiozza
    SG: Harden / Gordon / Frazier
    SF: Butler / Shumpert / Green
    PF: Tucker / House / Clark
    C: Jordan / Spellman / Hartenstein

    -Rockets offer MLE to DeAndre Jordan to be the team’s starting center in his hometown.
    -Rockets can offer a 4yr 8.6M deal to House. That is the most they can offer and NOT use the MLE. I think this is a real possibility.
    -Rockets can see if Rivers would come back for the Vet Min. If he does, they get *early bird rights* on him next season to pay him more. He liked it here, his role, so maybe he would be willing.
    -Rockets can sign Gerald Green for the Vet Min. He is fine for regular season bench depth, but not playoff depth.
    -Rockets could offer (with bird rights) Shumpert something like a 2 year 12M deal. With the 2nd year a *team option.* He gets paid above T-MLE line, and is *tradable salary* after December 12th for aggregation. Having tradable salary on the books is important for flexibility.

    This lineup gives you at least *7* playoff guys you can count on (CP3, JH, JB, PJ, DAJ, AR, EG). We will see how House/Clark develop (MDA needs to be vigilant next season and develop them). Maybe Shumpert gets moved for a better player and/or a buyout player emerges. Key for the Rockets is getting to *8* playoff guys.

    DJ has fallen off. But not fallen off a cliff. I think SOME of his fall off is due to him *not giving a damn* over the last 2 years. He will be motivated in Houston. He will be 31 (Harden & Butler will each be 30). He can give the team just about everything Capela brought them. He is durable, more physical and more of a paint presence. And hey, DJ can shoot FTs now! Notable! At the same time, you ADD Butler and everything he brings to the table. Maybe a small downgrade from Capela to DJ but a massive upgrade with the addition of Butler. Rockets can’t wait on Capela and any growth he may achieve. The time is now.

    In 2017 Morey has an awesome summer.
    1-Chris Paul traded to the Rockets.
    2-PJ Tucker signed with the MLE.
    3-Luc Mbah Moute signed with Vet Min.

    That is the kind of summer the Rockets need in 2019. Hit on the trade(s), MLE, Vet Min signings.
    Jimmy Butler and DeAndre Jordan fit that bill. And then we see who might be out there with Vet Mins like re-signing Austin Rivers. Maybe take a look back at Luc?
     
  6. Patience

    Patience Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I don’t think Tucker’s going anywhere. Harden loves him, and it sounds like the owner does too.
     
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  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I think it's more about defense. Butler is like ariza, can defend multiple positions. He and Tucker would be able to switch anything

    But yeah the offensive fit might be tougher
     
  8. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    True. Can't fault this.

    Of course I'd still rather get all the same in the form of a true PF, but beggars can't be choosers.
     
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  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    It's nice to see a trade that at least has logic for all parties and is well thought out. I could still see both Philly and Atlanta saying no, but with a goal of only sending out 1 true piece while getting back Butler, this might be as fair and reasonable as you might see.
     
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  10. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I think its highly unlikely.

    We'll have a better idea of the situation at the end of next month when players have to opt in/out of those contract options.

    I'd wager he opts out and that's the end of the saga.
     
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  11. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    The issue is that giving up 2 of Gordon, Tucker, Capela for Butler & Jordan wouldn't increase our total talent level, it would sort of just keep us flat.

    If Murray can find a way to add Butler and keep Gordon & Tucker that would be most ideal. Not sure how feasible Deuce's scenario is above but that would be the only that I feel would increase our talent level relative to the Warriors.
     
  12. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    Can someone clear this up for me.
    In the other thread someone shot down the idea of a sign and trade and said Jimmy would just opt in and then re-up the following year a la CP3.

    Assuming that Jimmy wants his full max now, isn’t the only way to make Butler happy is to have him opt out and then sign the FULL 5 year max in a sign and trade and get traded to Houston? It may not be ideal for us but we have to be realistic and make Jimmy want to come here. He’s not going to risk waiting another year to get paid and his main priority besides going to a team of his liking is to get the most money possible.

    Is there rules against sign and trading someone to the full 5 year max?
     
  13. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    PJ's on a good contract for another few years. Eric is entering his final year and will likely want more money after that, seeing as how it'll be his last shot at anything resembling a big contract.

    Jimmy replaces a lot of what Eric gives us, but PJ is the guy who loves to do the dirty work.

    To me, Eric's easily the odd man out.
     
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  14. BigBum

    BigBum Member

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    How to benefit 6ers?
    Capela/Shumpert/2 future first round picks for Butler. (centerpiece, 2 Firsts)
    They are not interested in Gordon. They have too much salary on role players starting from next season.
     
  15. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    Nevermind. I looked it up. Players cannot sign a 5 year contract for a sign and trade. Has to be either 3 or 4 years.
     
  16. Remlap

    Remlap Member

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    I'm not sold on Butler. A big part of our team is CHEMISTRY.
    After the way Butler destroyed the locker room and called out teammates in MInny
    to get out of town, I'm just a little concerned if he should become disenchanted for some reason here in Houston.
    Will he destroy our team too?
     
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  17. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

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    I would be absolutely thrilled if your scenario came about, and be very optimistic about the Rockets chances in 2019-20.

    I don't think Philly gets quite enough in your scenario, but another pick or two would cement their enthusiasm. Do you think they're ready to end the Butler experiment?
     
  18. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

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    If he did, there'd be only two more years on Paul's deal. I'd think the Rockets would blow the team up anyway if things degenerated to that degree.

    But yeah, General Soreness does not strike me as a guy who'll bravely soldier through adversity.
     
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  19. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    After thinking about it some more .... I'm pretty excited that we can send out Clint and nene and get right around Butler's salary . I did not know that before . I think it's legal for him to opt in and be traded for mutlipe salaries ? Or at the very least as part of a three way where we send Clint and nene to another team (say Cleveland) and they send send Love to philly and we get butler ?

    NBA trade machine says it's good but I don't fully trust it .

    This is pretty exciting because I think we do have a chance to use our picks and give a deal like this a decent shot at happening .

    I've also got a question for @BimaThug

    If we get Jimmy , can we sign him to 1 and 1's like golden state has been doing with Durant ? I know Jimmy might prefer a longer contract with more security , but I'm just curious if that's an option for us . If so , can we offer more money upfornt compared to other teams ? Or Are all max 1 and 1's the same no Matter which team offers it ?

    I'm a little excited about nene and Clint being enough salary to move for butler . I hope a 3rd team comes to play .

    I think Clint is a good enough asset to package along with a pick to get the 76ers a guy they would REALLY rather have than lose butler for nothing . Of course , butler's threat to leave has to be credible . Who knows what Jimmy really wants .
     
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  20. jb86

    jb86 Member

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    Jimmy would be great here. Why? Because this is a veteran team. And thats what Jimmy wants to be apart of. 76ers had some vets but they were young vets. Our team is way more seasoned. Also we need a player like that who push a challenge Harden in practice. Jimmy Butler keeps its real. I feel like we need more guys that will get in your face and check you if need be. One more thing, Jimmy can take over a game if CP3 or James is off.
     
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