Leave everything aside for a moment and just answer the one question this whole process is about in the end- -According to the FACTS on hand, do you think the Trump campaigns actions in 2016 and after in the fight to get past 2016 (call it obstruction or whatever you want) is okay with you? Do you feel like those actions you would be just as fine with if it was a Democrat? If it was a Democrat that did what Trump and his associates did according to the facts, what punishment would you believe is warranted (legally, politically, karma, etc)?? Let’s cut the BS and just stick to the facts of the report and the surrounding criminally investigated acts including the direction of a crime that landed Trumps own attorney in Jail for hard time. How do you feel about those actions and what would you say about those actions if it was Obama or any other Democrat??
That’s a very fair question and an easy out. All you have to say is “fair enough, I think a reasonable punishment should be X, and then everyone accepts it and moves on”. Let’s see if CM is capable of that or if he’ll even listen to my question. If no serious response is given, that tells you everything you need to know.
Exactly. We should not have to go any further than that. But most of them haven't read the report. Most of them let Mueller's performance overshadow the substance of his testimony so they still aren't paying attention to the evidence. I wanted to find out from someone who supports Trump how they get their mind around these FACTS. I don't expect to change their minds and that's not even what I was trying. I just want to understand how they can support that.
I think the moment they see someone respond to their post who they think isn’t aligned to their tribe, theres instantly a reaction to plug your ears, sing lalala and interpret through a combative lens. It’s an instant defensive position and it’s easier to make me or you the issue than look at the facts that they don’t want to accept. If I say... Trump was negotiating directly with the Kremlin through Cohen to build Trump Tower Moscow during the campaign and that’s a fact in the report that we should all probably have a unified opinion about, the issue is then turned on me... not answering the basic issue raised in the facts displayed that doing business with a hostile foreign power that is currently attacking our election while running for president in that election... is generally something we ALL should generally frown upon.
Facts??? We do not even have all of the "facts" yet. You and @FranchiseBlade are way behind on learning all of the the facts uncovered so far by real journalist who do a little bit more than just push narratives. The facts about the origins of the investigation have to be figured into answering the questions presented by you and @FranchiseBlade . This whole ordeal was manufactured from the beginning. Once we have the IG report and the everything Durham uncovers in his investigation then we can decide what questions need to be asked and how to answer them. I will say only this for now: If the roles were reversed and Republican administration turned the immense intelligence apparatuses of this great nation against a Democrat candidate, I would be just as outraged by the Republicans administrations actions.
And here you go... I asked you about the FACTS in the report and you couldn’t just respond to the question. You had to go to a counter narrative that is used as a defense. I’m not talking about the origins or the Dossier conspiracy or whatever. I’m talking about the Trump campaign and Trumps personal actions. What price would you say should be paid if the roles are reversed? If you say “To Answer your question ... nothing... I’m okay with it”... that’s fine. But you aren’t even admitting that. Why?? Not sure but the most likely reason is you know Trumps actions weren’t all appropriate so you don’t really want to admit that if you can find a way to say “Don’t look here.... look over there” and turn the conversation to your tribes conspiracy theory. Just yesterday you accused me of pinning all my hopes on the outcome of a conspiracy theory.... look at exactly what you just did. You are projecting and really looking at yourself in the mirror and pointing out your own disillusion in the end. Again... you want to talk about the Facts... let’s do it. You just aren’t going to go there though are you? Look at yourself in the mirror instead of constantly making me or Franchise or whoever the issue for simply discussing facts.
Agreed. Like how it’s a THEORY that the Democrats worked with the Russians to gather all this dirt on Trump in 2016, plant Russians around the Trump campaign that they forced them to meet with over 100 times. Not use any of the dirt on Trump in campaign that the Russians gathered, but instead planned on losing first then sabotaging Trumps presidency through the deep state FBI which is famously an arm for social justice warrior libtard Democrats. Then Obama rewarded Russia for their partnership by slapping sanctions on Russia. That my friend is a THEORY. You are totally correct that there is a HUGE difference in a conspiracy theory and a chargeable conspiracy. And shame on me for even for a second indulging for two seconds this theory. Bringing it up diverts and deflects instead of focusing on the point of my question which you still don’t have the courage to answer.
Conspiracy theory doesn’t exists if there aren’t people that believe it’s an actual conspiracy. I don’t totally blame your mind when you and your fellow comrade follow a leader that lives in conspiracy land and is a strong pusher of conspiracy theories.
And I should add... when a whole dang party is also pushing conspiracy theories. Amazing time we are in.
You can continue to live in your fantasy land where Trump colluded with Russia and obstructed the investigation even though he has been cleared of it from multiple investigations. He will never be impeached so it is over for that part of it whether you like it or not. There was absolutely nothing preventing whoever ran the investigation with Mueller's name tied to it from adding one simple little line saying something like 'The evidence shows Trump obstructed justice and would be indicted except for the OLC guidelines' to the report they penned. Such a line was not added because there was not any evidence for it. There was absolutely nothing keeping them from going after Trumps children yet they didn't. Why do you think that was the case for any other reason than the facts did not lead them to such a conclusion? In other words Trump did not conspire with Russia and did not obstruct. If he did he would be going through impeachment in real life not just in lefty fantasies. As far the rest of it. Yea, it is a theory but a theory based in facts unlike the Trump/ Russia conspiracy that has been peddled and proven false on multiple occasions. Unless you bury yourself under a rock or in the CNN/MSNBC echo chamber(not much difference these days) the facts will be officially coming out in due time. Many have already been uncovered by some of the true remaining journalist if you care to open your eyes and step out of the echo chamber you continually reside in. I will bookmark your post so we can revisit once all of the real facts come out. I seen no need to discuss this with such a delusional person any longer. It is a waste of my time to argue with someone who refuses to accept the fact that Trump has been proven innocent and did not crumble under the weight of a manufactured investigation. So go ahead and get the last word for now. We will revisit this once all of the real facts are in.
Lol, this is pretty good. Oh, and as a reminder for those with shaky memory... “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”
Democrats, as is their nature, have managed to take the most solid case for an impeachment inquiry in the history of our government and managed to turn it into a PR boost for this incompetent and corrupt President. I'd say it's unbelievable, but it totally is.
Here we go again. Projecting a delusion of conspiracy theory onto me. Again... I said the FACTS in the report. I have not asked you ONCE about any theory beyond the FACTS in the report. I have never once promoted any wild theories not supported by THE FACTS in the report. Talking about the FACTS surrounding something like Trump Tower Moscow for example is not Conspiracy theory... that again is.. A FACT as a point of discussion. The FACTS in the report that I asked you about time and time again you refuse to answer a simple question about. Just divert to talking about me, or the media, or whatever. Fantasyland is an understatement. You are truly lost my friend, and it saddens me that there are millions of others just like you that are doing this exact same song and dance all around the country.
No such thing as "collusion". So there is no way the report "cleared" trump on collusion. No doubt why you continue to stake your claim of trump's innocence on it. You can ignore Mueller's testimony and his written report, but both clearly stated trump and his campaign conspired with russia to win the 2016 election, then lied about it later. A few excerpts: Just as the testimony and report discussed trump's efforts to impede and obstruct the investigation. Here's a link to the testimony transcripts, since they detail many instances of trump and his campaign working with russians and many instances of trump obstructing justice. You can ignore it as well I suppose. Link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...rt-mueller-house-committee-testimony-n1033216
What exactly have the Democrats done wrong strategically? What could they even do differently other than have started an impeachment inquiry? The media on the other hand.... don't get me started.... good lord they are horrible for the Democratic Party. It's laughable at this point for anyone to try and make a case that they are all working on behalf of Dems. I'm just confused at what you are getting at. Trump, his state media arms, and his followers were always going to spike a non-existent football in a non-existent end-zone regardless of the outcome. Have we learned nothing about Trumpism for the past 3 years? It will never be Trump's fault and regardless of the facts Trump always won. If Trump was in jail right now as we speak, CM, and Texx would be saying its a win for Trump. We just found out over the past two years that the President of the United States welcomed foreign influence, was dealing with that foreign opponent on business deals, and obstructed the investigation into that foreign influence... that person we are talking about DID NOT win a "PR BOOST". But if you say he won it when he really didn't or shouldn't.... he actually does through disillusion. The facts in the report are really really really bad. Lets just leave it at that, and stop the sportscenter coverage play by play of the Democrats response. They didn't do what Trump did in the report. in no place in the report does it say that Nancy Pelosi created a false document that falsely portrayed an agreement for Trump Tower Moscow. The Report is about Trumps actions. Those actions = Bad. Not sure why we can't just leave it at that.
You basically answered your own question. The grounds for an impeachment inquiry have been there almost from the start of Trump's Presidency. Then the Mueller Report drops, which is basically a gigantic "START IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS NOW" sign in flashing neon lights, and the Democrats still cannot get their messaging or direction together. It's absolutely pathetic and laughable, yet entirely expected. At this point I don't really care what they do, I just want them to pick a ****in' lane, because every day that goes by where the American public sees this waffling will-they-wont-they infighting is another drop in the bucket for Trump 2020.
The way Trump/Mueller Report is covered and talked about would be like covering the Rockets vs the Warriors in a game where the night before the game Steve Kerr and Draymond remove the rims from the goals & deflate the balls, but Chuck & Shaq are b****ing that Harden dribbles too much. The way this is covered is insane.
I basically agree with this. The "inquiry" should have started at the latest a week after the Mueller report dropped. The messaging has been sloppy as well. Especially the messaging about how Mueller would "bring life" to the report. The report is the report, and that alone is damning. I agree... it has been bad from a messaging standpoint, and the inquiry should have started. I just think the coverage of the Trump/Mueller Report is insane, but Democrats need to do everything they can to stop giving any room for them to be the story. The story is not about them in this case. Like my Rockets analogy... yeah... Harden might dribble too much, but TNT needs to cover the fact that Steve Kerr, and Draymond stole the rims from the goals, and deflated the basketballs the night before. That is the story for this game. The facts of the Report should be the story in regards to the report... not this coverage of the response to the report being covered like THAT is the real story.
