Is James Harden the laziest player in the NBA when he doesn't have a ball in his hand?

Putting on a lullaby for the opponents to doze off, it hardly worked on playoff contending teams.

 

Is there a Celtic Irving equivalent to this thread around?

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php...half-court-when-chris-ran-the-offense.299129/

 

I dunno if Harden is the laziest ever but tbh it's getting old.

I could sorta understand it when he had beef with Cp3 but now its his guy WB he is playing with. No excuse for lazy off the ball play.

At the end of the day it all comes back to the coach. We got Dumbtoni who is extremely hands off and doesnt know how to hold his players accountable and also do it in a way that doesnt alienate Harden.

 

ofc. even worse.

 

At least Westbrook puts his hands up. Harden doesn't even try to contest 3s the majority of the time or run to the open shooter.

Harden seriously hasn't changed at all after Westbrook joined. Is he really going to use the "need to conserve my energy for offense" excuse again?

 

Yes

 

If the opponents are going to guard Harden 40' out without the ball, what is wrong with having others (esp WB) run a 4 on 4 offense?
There is undeniable value in attacking 4on4 vs 5on5.

• This is like the reverse of the complaint that teams will sag on guys like WB, Draymond and clog lane.
  At anytime, Harden can turn the court into 4 on 4.
  
  
• The first WB play is classic 4on4.
• And although EGo misses his layups here, he's driving right under Harden's defender, who is sticking to JH 40' out.
• The last play (WB 3ptr), again WB has the whole middle to drive into, if he wants it.

I'm not asking you guys to switch from wanting a motion offense
I'm merely asking you to consider the value of 4x4 as part of "Is Harden Lazy?" questions.

 

No, but an active James off the ball will create more opportunities for other. Imagine James Thompson or Klay Harden. That player would be absolutely unstoppable and they would be unable to sit on his left hand..

 

Here's another example of 4x4 being played underneath the defender sticking to Harden

 

this is more of an example of the bucks willing to keep it a 2 possession game rather than 1 at that point. which is the right thing to do

 

Yeah I agree with the OP somewhat too. His body language is discouraging...the team may feed off that too especially when things are going bad...like he doesn't give a crap. If they see their superstar/leader just lazily walking up the court and not engaged when theres a play being run they aren't going to be as willing to give it their all either.

 

This happens all game long, though. And EGo is wide open for a three regardless.

That is not good defense for the layup or the wide open 3, should WB kick.

 

oh i get it, I was just saying. its just in that possession, the bucks are playing to not let the rockets get off a good look off a 3 initially. if the rockets are going to continue to play this way then yeah the 4 vs 4 looks have ways that can potentially work. but guys still need to make the shots at the end of the day

 

Like I said, I'm not asking you to switch from wanting motion offense, or Rip Hamilton picket-fences for off-ball Harden.

I'm asking you to consider the undeniable value of 4x4 offense v 5x5, whenever you see Harden "being lazy" standing 40' out.

 

Why did the defense collapse, then?
EGo can't be anymore wide open on that defense.
WB just missed the kick to play for the easy 2.

 

Mchale too, all those times he said play harder were meant directly to Harden

 

natural reaction? he could of kicked it but obviously didn't. down 6, they needed a quick bucket and eg was ice cold still

 

It's a great point, @heypartner . I would submit to MDA however (even though he's 100x smarter than me about basketball) that there are "hidden costs" to the 4x4 strategy. For one, it plays to Harden's worst instincts and can carry over to the other end of the floor. For another, I think it at least subconsciously affects the overall team psychology to have their star standing around so far from the basket as if waiting in line at a taco truck or something. When five guys have ants in their pants, it fires up the bench, and this fires up the five guys, and so on.

 

I love you OP....

But in the past you have called Harden "fat" and "not in shape" to the point that it became a joke on these boards.

He has greatly improved his defense and every single year improves his game.

Concerning the question of whether "He is the laziest player in the league when he doesn't have the ball in his hands".

He certainly isn't defensively and offensively there are a lot of offenders that are similar.

Kyrie Irving is worse, he doesn't even set screens..... Westbrook had gotten pretty bad...... Speaking of the Spurs, DeRozen is pretty bad.



Also in the Rockets system they want Harden at the top of the key a lot of the time, so a lot of it is by design.

Of all the things to complain about on the Rockets..... this really isn't that big a deal. The offensive issues are largely related to not having a long 4 and a 5 that cannot shoot the ball. If the Rockets had that, the issues on offensive would be tiny.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the miscommunication inside and that the 4-5 are late a lot of times.