Harden fixed his turnovers issue by getting more assists but the TO's are still a problem

Mark my words. If Harden doesn't fix his turnover issue, he will not win the MVP. As bad as Westbrook is on turnovers, Harden is actually even worse than him. Harden's careless passing (and subpar defense, I would add) has been overlooked due to some of our role players playing out of their minds early in the season, but it will eventually catch up to this team once Pat and EGo come back down to earth along with our team record. And then people in the media will begin to look for possible causes of our relative slump, and see that Harden is averaging a whopping 6+ TOs a game. The MVP narrative could quickly go south on him if this trend continues.

 

Once again...Harden's turnovers are definitely an issue. He shouldn't average 6+. 4-5? Sure, but anything more is excessive. Not a doubt about it.

And yet it is not the issue. Look no further than the delusional belief by many last year that Harden was the problem because of turnovers and defense, despite having more turnovers this year and significantly more wins and an MVP campaign. We know what Harden's going to give and it's more than enough to win. The rest of the team matters.

The team is regressing because the role players, who were all terrific in December, are no longer playing terrifically (and also have been injured/sick/etc.). When the role players bounce back, the team will bounce back. If they don't, we're simply an above average team and not much more. Simple as that. We know Harden will give his usual near-triple-double night in and night out. Right now the consistency from the rest of the team is lacking, therefore the consistency in our performance is lacking.

And yes, Harden, once again, could help if he lowered his turnovers to a more reasonable number.

 

A bad shooter or a slow mover are one thing, but turnovers are just because of repeated bad decisions, not because of an innate flaw. It's something addressable and therefore people want to discuss it.

Although the "serious talk" thread was kind of ridiculous, it has become a Clutchfans meme because people are so resistant to discussing this.

It's all stats and MVP pursuit right now, but wait until a sequence like last night happens in the playoffs. All of the sudden bi-polar Clutchfans is going to swing the other way on this one.

 

I mean obviously 20+ turnovers (or whatever it was) is too many. I don't think anyone in their right mind would defend that.

But isn't it the Rockets' perspective that X amount of turnovers are OK? (It was either 10 or 15, I can't remember.) And that they didn't care if Harden had 1 or half or all of those turnovers, so long as the team total was below that number. I believe this was said during a nationally televised game by the ESPN broadcasters.

As such, since the Rockets don't look at it from the perspective of individual players, how much sense does it make to have a discussion breaking it down in terms of individual players?

 

Well, our discussion doesn't have to be limited to what the Rockets PR will talk about. They're not going to dish any salt on their superstar leader.

Reducing turnovers in general IS the issue; especially at certain times, like the last 5 minutes of a tight game. Regardless of who is contributing by the numbers, the real issue is how his turnovers occur.

I can't produce stats on this but from watching all of the games this season, I feel confident in saying that he has his pocket picked at the top of the key about 2x per game, and he underthrows a pass right into the defender about 3x per game (Brock Osweiler style).

We can live with things like missed alley-oops, or deflected passes. But both of the above types of turnovers are fixable, and they usually lead to instant points the other way.

So my request is just improvement in those little areas.

 

I think most of his TOs are in an effort to make a play for someone else. He has the ball in his hands 90% of the time the whole game. We will have to live with some TOS from him. We hope they don't come late in the game and lead to fast break layups for the other team, those are the worst kinds of TOs. I think this just tells us that we need another guy on the floor that can handle the ball and do a little creating to relieve Harden of some of that burden and prevent the defense from locking in on him every trip down. Right now, Bev, Ariza, nor Anderson are capable of doing that on a consistent basis so it's all oh Harden. Hopefully Morey can find a steal at the deadline to help with some of the playmaking and scoring. I think that would fix some of his TOs.

 

What im saying is that you can replace him with any player not named Lebron James and we would be a lottery team. We are a team that STARTS Brewer every once in a while(injuries).That should tell you about everything

 

Right, and a fair take.

The tough issue is finding a balance between handling the ball 90% of the game and not getting lazy/casual with ball-handling. Especially in the 4th quarter.

 

Curry? Durant? Leonard? Paul? Westbrook? Wall? Lowry?

 

_holic new username #confirmed

 

Making more assists does not "fix" the turnover problem. It's like a team's scoring more points "fixes" its defensive problem. It doesn't fix it. It just makes it less of a problem.

The problem is not the number of TOs by Harden. It is HOW the turnovers happen. If they are caused by carelessness or poor decisions on Harden's part, then it does need to be fixed. (D'Antoni needs to have a serious talk with him. ) If it is in the flow of the offense that takes some risks in order to create good shots, then we should just live with it. It's just a trade off. Perhaps a good trade off as the number of assists increases.

 

Well he averages 5.9 turnovers per game, so I'm guessing the critics here are saying they think he should have a 12/1 assist to turnover ratio. That, or the oversimplification of stripping all context and looking solely at one player's turnovers per game is a bad way to analyze a team. One of those two has to be the case.

Or maybe, just maybe, he really averages about 1-1.5 "bad" turnovers per game; and maybe, just maybe, that's the cost of having James Harden put up MVP numbers and carry a mid-tier team to a top 3 spot. Maybe.

(Tone of this post is not meant to be adversarial so much as just a disagreement on approach.)

 

If the Rockets could curtail their "LIVE BALL" turnovers and limit exposure to their transition defense that would do wonders for the team. More than anything that is what kills them.

 

He has about 2 bad turnovers a game in a normal game. Last night's game was an aberration obviously. He doesn't regularly put up double digit turnovers and that taints the view right now.

 

Are you stupid? lowry and Wall?Lets see how their teams are doing. Toronto with more talent then us has a inferior record and the Wizards? You are a notorious YOF/LOF so you are biased.

 

I'm stupid (or biased) b/c I think a primary lineup of Wall (or Lowry), Gordon, Ariza, Anderson, and Capela is good enough to make the playoffs in the west?

Do you realize that Denver is the current 8th seed with a record of 18-25?

 

I mean...sure...we'd make the playoffs. We wouldn't be nearly as good as we are now, though.

 

Wouldn't call averaging 6 turnovers a game fixing anything. He's a good playmaker, but not as good as everyone around here thinks. Chris Paul has a 4:1 assist to turnover ratio. Harden has a 1.96:1 ratio. Not that the Rockets have another choice though, since I think MDA's system works best with the ball in Harden's hands. Also, Harden could easily cut down on some turnovers if he just played it more safe sometimes instead of trying to make a flashy highlight reel assist.

 

What would be interesting is the live ball turnovers and the points of Harden turnovers....

 

U gotta be kidding man. U are tripping and this is the last time i respond to you.
BBALLHOLIC AKA JOOMBA AKA WEKKO368