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Harden fixed his turnovers issue by getting more assists but the TO's are still a problem

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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  2. Rockets4Life13

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    No they dont win 55 games unless popovich (who i think is the best coach in the league by a wild margin) is the coach of that team. Let's be honest here, leonard doesn't carry the spurs to their record. It's pop. Yes, leonard is a great defender and also very good offensively but let's be real, popovich somehow manages to win every damn close game, he somehow manages to make great roleplayers out of literally every damn player on the team.
     
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  3. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    The biggest difference between Kobe-Harden has nothing to do with offense.
     
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  4. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    Same here. That's why, even though interior defense is our biggest weakness, I would like to target one or two more snipers and lose brewer from rotation or dump him.

    Having 4-5 legit shooters is why we are prolific. But remove brewer and add another elite shooter and it helps cure some of the cold spells we get in losses.
     
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  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I was going to say that it's interesting the Rockets are actually better than both GSW and SAS when making <= 33%.

    Rockets 8-6
    SAS 6-5
    GSW 6-6

    I didn't expect that,,,on similar amount of games, too.
     
    #105 heypartner, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  6. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    Wait, I thought the Spurs only had 9 losses. Are you including pre-season or what am I missing?
     
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  7. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    hmmm....don't know what I did. Must have accidentally clicked a different team.

    SAS = 6-5

    edited my previous posts....thx...the rest of the numbers are correct
     
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  8. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    That pass is frustrating, but I still like it for the fact that he's trying to make something happen. Those are the types of passes you can excuse by saying "yeah, he had some turnovers but his assists are really high."

    The really painful ones are what I call the passive turnovers where he just gets his pocket picked at the top of the key, or he floats a pass too softly.
     
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  9. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Harden's "pocket passes" last year were awful. They were kind of thrown half-ass and Dwight did a poor job of gathering the pass.

    This year the pocket passes are better but can be up and down. They are mostly for Nene because he can't catch lobs. But then the onus is on Nene to catch the pass otherwise it is a turnover for Harden, even if the pass is perfect.
     
  10. basketballholic

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    You're make 3's theory isn't valid. In the playoffs, defenses are better and players' legs are worn down. Most of the time three-point percentages drop across the board because of those factors.


    Can I like this ten times?
     
    #110 basketballholic, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  11. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    There are certain situations where averages don't give you a good measure.

    This is one of those situations.

    Harden's high turnover rate this season is actually not that bad given all that he has to do. On the flip side, the games where he turns it over 7+ times aren't going to cut it.

    @napalm_black had a really good post on the previous page where he mentioned:

    I think this paints the picture of what a lot of us are trying to say more accurately. There are two things wrong with this.

    1) 18 games with more than 7 turnovers is way too many.
    2) our record in those games is horrible.

    It's not the average which is the problem.

    There are just too many times harden is careless with the basketball. It's the unforced errors, the lazy passes, and the games with 7,8, or 9 turnovers. That's the real problem.

    I don't think anyone here is advocating that the difference in a championship is him averaging 4.6 turnovers a game versus 5.8 turnovers a game.

    I do think him improving the things above will eventually be the difference in a championship or not. Of course, that's as long as we got one or two more good players.
     
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  12. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    We agree - but even playing at an 11-7 pace isn't horrible, it's pretty good, it's just not as good as we know we can be. And it's not good enough to beat the powerhouses in a playoff series. That's why we fans are being tough on our team.

    It's not hate, it's tough love. :cool:
     
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  13. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    Right. I mean relatively so.

    11-7 on those games is as bad as the record @heypartner looked up for games shooting <33% from 3.

    I think we can all agree that Harden needs to keep his turnovers down. At least keep them in the 5-6 range and we as a team need to shoot better than 33% from three.
     
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  14. davidxhz

    davidxhz Member

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    i think harden should just take All star break and practice passing now, he needs to put serious work into how to pass the damn ball without giving it away
     
  15. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    @DudeWah napalm_black

    correlation doesn't necessarily equates causation
    it can be that harden or the team is simply tired, ill or has 'bad energy' or biorhytm so tos are just a nusproduct of him or the team playing bad in general

    so making 2 turnovers less dont mean we will win the game...harden can easily cut on the turnovers i just dont think you would have liked the other stuff that would come in the bag with that
     
  16. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    11-7 is better than 8-6
     
  17. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Why do the Rockets want to settle for a 55 wins when they can have much more? Crazy question. The goal is not just a "successful" season, its about a championship season.

    Increase your expectations.
     
  18. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Right, no proof of causation.

    But since we don't have access to advanced stats, and it confirms our eye test, we're rolling with the correlation. :cool:
     
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  19. basketballholic

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    http://bkref.com/tiny/Rc3iZ

    Here is a complete list of the 86 players who have averaged over 4 turnovers a game in the playoffs in the 3-point era. Only 1 player (Magic in 1980) out of 86 won a championship when averaging over 4 turnovers a game in the playoffs.

    Harden is currently averaging 5.9 turnovers a game. When the playoffs start, he will be going against better defenders and teams designing their defense around blunting his affect and watering down his efficiency, his minutes will increase and his turnovers will increase. He's not even close to being efficient enough as a playmaker to lead us to a championship. And more shooters aren't going to change that. He's still going to throw it away unless he changes his game and quits taking the high risks which lead to the devastating turnovers. Believe me, in the playoffs those turnovers will be devastating.
     
    #119 basketballholic, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  20. basketballholic

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    Wait a minute. I just asked you today if you believe we're going to win a championship this season. You fudged. #hypocrisy
     

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