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[GQ] The Jeremy Lin Debate No One Wants to Have

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by acshen, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. bloop

    bloop Member

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    You're going to start your post by blasting "yet another white guy" and then try to play off like you're not racist?

    Your own article talks about how important it is to Melo that "young black men" be the leaders on any team. Question. Is Lin black? How's that going to work out for him.

    The fact that you think Lin has "so many question marks at PG" appears biased? I try to say that logically. Because the numbers don't back you up. Lin in fact by any measurable doesn't have question marks. Look at his stats and point to me which one is questionable. Look at his combine numbers for his athleticism and tell me which ones are question marks. Even his TOV% is better than the guy they brought in to replace him and better than Nash's.

    You don't even have your facts straight. His contract doesn't "pay him like he's already a star player" it pays him like he's an average player. Dude do you even know what his contract is? He's getting paid around $8 million a year. Which is firmly in the area of mid sized contract.

    I'm sorry, I'm seeing some good rebuttals from the other side but you're not one of them. You throw out a bunch of generalities about how this is a star contract and how Lin has question marks that aren't even accurate and expect them to stick to the broad side of a barn.

    I mean how do you feel about Kyrie Irving? Dude got a $21.9 million contract after 0 NBA games and about a dozen NCAA games. Ridiculous. Yes. No? Wait is Kyrie Chinese? For some reason all the NBA cats just don't think he's as much of a risk as Lin is.
     
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  2. johnstarks

    johnstarks Member

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    QFT. The crazy part about the 6 degrees piece was that the x that the Knicks were throwing around was something like 3M, which is a) way underpaid for the type of impact he had on and off the court and b) a really good way to tell your own player, the first guy to galvanize the city behind the team since Latrell Sprewell in 99, that he's worth less than a backup role player.

    And now the Knicks are butthurt that he got a legit offer on the market? That is ridiculous.

    The other stupid thing that I keep reading is when people ask is he worth $15million? Of course he's not worth $15 mil. But that's not his contract. It's 2 years of being underpaid and one year of being massively overpaid, unless he blossoms into an all-star caliber pg. As a player he's worth probably 8M a year, which is what his contract is.
     
  3. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    The Rockets took Lin because he can make money and play PG. There are plenty of other Asians in the world, and the Rockets didn't hire them because they can't make money and play PG. According to your way of thinking, the Rockets should have an all-Asian lineup.
     
  4. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    At this point in his career, he very well may be. I mean, what is this? Wheechair basketball?
     
  5. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Your first point is spot on except that I see no racial animus toward Lin. What happened was that the NY media hopped onto a nice story about an Asian American kid breaking through in the NBA against all odds to re-energize the moribond NYKs - a team who had been basically left for dead after the Isaih Thomas debacle. The NY media jumped on this story and milked it for all they could. If there was jealousy from other players it's because they hadn't experienced something like this. You'll note that players with real skins on the wall - players like D Wade, Dirk, Kobe, Lebron - had nothing but positive things to say about Lin. In a historical context, the Linsanity hype reminds me of the Mark "The Bird" Fidrych episode back in 1976 for the Detroit Tigers. As for Stephen A. Smith, he's far from being a racist. Stephen A. Smith is paid by ESPN to be loud, opinionated, bombastic and to give so-called "insider" information and hot sports opinions. Don't confuse schtick with reality else you'll miss most of Kevin McHale's routine.
     
  6. kinein

    kinein Member

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    MSG stock has lost over 100 million dollars now.

    But we should keep downplaying the luxury tax hit.
     
  7. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Oh, please, save that for the Rush Limbaugh crowd. What we had a bunch of folks jumping all over Carmelo & black players hoping to play the so-called "reverse racism" card as if they had the faintest idea as to what black people are all about. The fact is, you have no earthly idea what racism is about unless you have had to live with it. I have - I grew up in segregated Houston and experienced racism first hand. As such, I can be certain that this situation with Carmelo had NOTHING to do with racism and anyone who asserts otherwise hasn't got a clue.

    Is Lin black? What in the world are you talking about? Sorry, but now you are being deliberately dense. The article brings up this concept of "young black men" becoming leaders on their teams. First of all, I pointed out that's news to me. Secondly, isn't that what Wade, Bosh & LeBron did down in Miami? Isn't that what D Williams & D Howard want to do in Brooklyn? So it quite naturally fits that is what Carmelo wanted to do in NY only the whole Linsanity thing did not fit into his paradigm. Hmm, another NBA star player with his own agenda. Now where (Kobe) have I (Kobe) seen that before (Kobe)? Again, that's what the ESPN article said. As for myself, my reaction was hoookayy (if you say so)...

    I have looked at Lin's game and here's what I see: not a great ball handler, too many turnovers at crucial times, nice midrange game, poor 3-pt shooter, probably a more effective player in a different system other than D' Antoni's. He's good but not great which again is OK in my book. I just want to see him play head to head against guys like Parker, D Williams, D Rose (when he's healthy) and Westbrook a few times BEFORE I start trying to make the argument that he's better than a two time league MVP. Now, the really good news about him is that he understands what he has to improve and most importantly, he has the capacity to make that improvement.

    Do you even know what his contract is? You are talking abut his effect on the salary cap - not his actual salary. He's being paid on a 5/5/x format with the x year being that $15M balloon salary. Morey & the Lin camp upped that last year to exploit the loophole in the new CBA and to force the NYKs not to match which worked. My comments are about the total value of that contract which I maintain, is somewhat rich for a guy who has been cut from several teams, was in the NBADL three times (including the Knicks) and was sitting at the end of the Knicks bench before providence struck. It's based more on his off the court appeal than his actual basketball resume. It's in no way disparaging to Lin the player whom I really like and hope he doesn't fall victim to all of the hype and PR designed to make $$$ off him by Les and the Rockets.

    Well, I really liked your earlier post but this disappointed me greatly. I thought your reaction here was narrow-minded and quite typical of those who jump at the first chance to try to interject reverse racism into a situation that had nothing with racial animus. Which proves my point about you and yours lacking a true understanding of what racism is all about. This has less to do with Carmelo being black and Lin being asian than it did with a bunch of folks looking to make a quick buck off a kid with a nice story. As for my opinion of Lin the basketball player, you should note that I am not the only poster here who feels that the Linsanity hype is not justified quite yet. Now, I have been diplomatic in how I say it but the reality as I see it is that he's not as good as the guys they let go (Kyle & Dragic) and I would question why they simply didn't offer this contract to Dragic. But then, Dragic's signing wouldn't have jumpstarted season ticket sales and had folks lined up to purchase Dragic jerseys at midnight now would it?

    I'm sorry but this just too silly to respond to - I mean come on man. Lin's not Chinese, he's an American by birth - he was born in Los Angeles. His parents, Lin Gie-Ming and Shirley Lin, emigrated from Taiwan to the United States. Kyrie Irving isn't even in this discussion but point duly noted that you feel that it's about race and not basketball.
     
  8. kinein

    kinein Member

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    What the hell is going on :O

    Oh yah this is the Debate No One Wants to Have.
     
  9. RoxBro

    RoxBro Member

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    I'm hoping (somewhat selfishly) that Lin is the point guard we saw during Linsanity, and continues to blossom. Everyone loves an underdog story and this is it. He doesn't have to carry the team, just lead them with heads up high IQ basketball plays.
     
  10. acshen

    acshen Contributing Member

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    You're missing the whole point of Lin's appeal. A player who can drop 20+pts consistently (he did it 11 times out of 25 starts) shouldn't have been overlooked the way he was. The only reason he WAS in the NBADL and at the end of the bench is because of the racist talent evaluation that pervades the league. And you're just showing more of it.

    Lin, if he were white or black, would have been on a higher profile D1 team and would have been drafted in the first round. He then would have been a solid pickup whose contract you wouldn't be disparaging. His 8.4 MM/year contract is an average to slightly overpaid value for his production.

    However, the *MAIN* point of the article is that so many people are hating on his contract at all in the public discourse. That simply doesn't happen between players. It's breaking the implicit bro-code amongst athletes. It shows a complete lack of respect for Jeremy.
     
  11. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member
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    Obama, anyone? First president ever accused in so many ways of being anti-America. I wonder why. Oh wait, no I don't.
     
  12. ralphabetsoup

    ralphabetsoup Member

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    Maybe what this is really about, subconsciously, is Lin possibly inspiring other younger Asian-American kids to see basketball as a viable career choice - thus potentially taking away future jobs from Afro-Americans. It's hard to judge whether that b-ball ability even exists in the Asian-American population at all, but I'm sure it would upset the college team process along the way. It will be interesting to see if a crop of Asian American players comes up in this next generation, and how much resistance they face. Jeremy kind of got in through the service entrance.

    I've seen players all the time slammed by the press before for being considered overpaid, but never by other players, let alone frickin' teammates.
     
  13. s.b713

    s.b713 Member

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    Hillboy is black, he mad.
     
  14. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    Hillboy, just stop. Your arguments are clearly rooted in prejudice. Has any undrafted, benchwarming PG ever broke out like Lin did last season? To me, that just shows Lin was consistently overlooked/dismissed by talent evaluators due to racial profiling.
     
  15. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    HillBoy was more entertaining when he would just rant about how much he hated Erick Dampier.
     
  16. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    To be completely honest I don't know if you guys watched his play in GSW. I watched several games. Lin was not as good as he is now to be honest. He was a lot skinnier (and by this I just mean less thick) and his shooting wasn't very good. I think race played a little bit into why he wasn't drafted into the NBA but not as much as I think people think it did. Race hands down was a big reason why he didn't get scouted by top colleges to play basketball after receiving the same HS award that Kemba Walker, Ty Lawson and Raymond Felton did. The fact that Lin was the only player in the history of that award to not go to a top college for basketball speaks for itself. In regards to him not getting drafted into the NBA I seriously think it had a lot more to do with him not being as good as he is now. He worked out in the offseason and got a whole lot better while other players got fat (cough Felton cough). Not saying that race was not a factor in him not being drafted in the NBA but I think him just working harder to be a better player over the summer is more of a reason why he was able to explode in the NBA.
     
  17. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    Steven A Smith is clearly a racist. He said so much junk about Lin during his days in New York. Even when he's playing lights out, Smith is dishing dirt for no apparent reason.

    You nailed it very well. Who is McGee?

    While Lin was on a historic run, Smith saying Lin is a bench warmer at best. Show you how intelligent or non racist he is.
     
  18. s.b713

    s.b713 Member

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    Yeah players happen to go under the radar sometimes in the NBA, its just how it is. Some players that go undrafted pan out. Its just how funny is for players to come forward and criticize a fellow ex teammates contract in PUBLIC. I don't see players discussing the Nets
    Brook Lopez Max contract when he hasn't even played in a year.
     
  19. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Javale McGee. Center for the Nuggets. I don't think SAS is a racist. I do know for a fact that he does always defend the black athlete over any other athlete of a different race.
     
  20. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    :) Let's just say Smith has a very strong African American athlete oriented bias. To the point he does not make any sense. With huge double standards. One set for African American players, the other for non African American players.

    NO way in hell he could justify saying that Lin is a bench warmer in a radio show when he just dropped 38 points on the lakers, and he was like, "come on, it's ridiculous, he is bench warmer..." sounds like Lin was some trash you picked up from the streets. I can bet all my dollar that if it's a AFrican american player that is in similar situation, Smith will call him the next savior of the NBA.
     
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