Afraid to start this thread, hopefully someone else will

On the whole, people are just (seemingly) r****ded. The Astros are a bigger disappointment this year than the Rockets could ever dream to be. I think people just got on Francis more because he was easier to vilify than anybody on the Astros. The media b****ed about him all the time, so did the coach...that just automatically creates animosity in the ignorant masses. Clemens could have been an easy scapegoat on the Astros side, but he had the best year of anybody. I guess the Astros are just too vanilla (no pun intended) to elicit the kind of response the Rox would get. Plus, this is a Rockets board, and I'm sure most of the people here feel stronger about them than they do the Astros.



BTW - Jessica Alba's the hottest.

 

Maybe it's because the Astros have a tradition of being also-rans and never winning the big prize that people just expect them to do whatever and accept it.

... and baseball sucks.

* ducking and running for cover *

 

Your point of view is probably a bit skewed since this is 99% a Rockets board and 1% an Astros board. The fact that thousands of us sit around and analyze every single bit of the Rockets season in the GARM leads a lot of posters to say outrageous things just to get noticed. When there's a hundred current threads going, a lot of people will really go off the deep end in their analysis just to get noticed, which leads to a destructive cycle of negativity about the team and its players. There is not nearly the volume of discussion about the Astros, but I have noticed quite a bit of negativity in that discussion. The difference is that there aren't 10 separate negative threads about it, it's just mostly confined to the game thread that day. On other boards I have seen many, many negative and personal attacks on players like Bagwell and Biggio. Not to mention the bullpen, who probably takes it the worst.

Another point probably worth noting is that a basketball team is a lot smaller in terms of numbers than a baseball team. You get to know the players better, including personal things that occur off the court. The news media only has the same few players to interview and report on in basketball, whereas in baseball there are a lot more people on the team. As a result, everybody knows about it when SF3 gets arrested for drunk driving, Mo Taylor is busted for smoking dope, Barkley throws a dude through a window, and Eddie Griffin shoots at his girlfriend. These types of stories aren't exactly endearing to fans, and that doesn't breed a lot of loyalty to the players.

 

Ducking and running for cover --- after you entice and provoke

 

Exactly. Due to greater fan fervor, you're much more likely to find extremist opinions pertaining to the Rockets than you would with the Astros. Here's a graph:

 

AB,

You want negativity about the Astros....you got it.

I am very frustrated with the team.....and think it should be blown up.

I also despise Steve Francis, because he has talked the talk but NEVER walked the walk.

I have no time for players who fail to recognize their limitations and work on them.

Same reason I don't like Ausmus...I mean the guy should at least be able to hit .250 in the majors....

The lack of fire on the Astros drives me nuts...Kent is a lazy bum, Biggio and Bags are WAY over the hill, and the pitching staff is too darned soft.

I think people are frustrated with the Stros but have basically given up on them....I know I have.

DD

 

Why is this in the ClutchFans.net feedback forum?

 

On that score, it seems like you'll find very little talk of basketball on the radio and a lot about baseball. And here, you'll have a lot of basketball talk and little on baseball. Could it be the difference in the types of forums? Here you have a mob-rule discussion of basketball; there, you have a DJ-regulated discussion of baseball.

Btw, I don't know why anyone would think of a racial difference if you hadn't mentioned it. I don't think that's the crux of it, even if the current white guys on the Rockets squad get cut way too much slack (it's coincidence, I think).

 

To me it's simple. The Astros are losers. They have yet to prove that they can even challenge in a playoff series. It's been nearly 20 years since they last threatened to win the pennant. In other words, no one is evere surprised that the Astros end up not making the playoffs or not challenging when thay do.

Same was true with the Oilers, except that they could sometimes make you feel like that they could actually make a run in the playoffs. That is until that.... ugh... that game. I can't even go there. YOu know what I'm talking about. I'm just glad Bud took that curse with him.

As for the Rockets, everything changed in 95. We beat all the odds and won our second title in a row. From that point on, the expectations have been way high. We always tend to beleive that we can beat all odds and win it again.

In short, I think there is so much passion when disussing the rocks because we've been to the promised land and we want to go back.

Other factors could be that BBS' always bring out the worst in people. Anonyminity can be dangerous! Also the culture has changed to be more aggressive when talking about your team, a la Jim Rome and others who are similar.

 

Exactly. Nobody has ever seen the Astros be champions, be the big winners. And the few times they've had a shot at it, they choked. It's become almost normal for them to lose in the first round, or have a dissappointing season like this one.

We've all seen the Rockets overcome their obstacles. Even if that was a completely different team, it's still the same organization that has been a champion.

 

The Astros have always looked good on paper and always hyped up their team before the seasons, but they haven't come close to the prize. This season, they had the players they needed to give it a run, but it's just seems to be that Houston curse of not making it to the end.

About the Rockets, I agree w/ DD about SF talking so much crap, but never backing it back up.

 

You just don't like the Astros because they don't have any black guys.

 

Boy do I ever agree! I have followed the Lastros from the time they were known as the Colt 45's playing out in Buffalo Stadium on South Main (I was a mere baby, of course) and year in year out it's been the same old tired refrain: Weak pitching, punchless hitting, stupid trades, cheap ownership (pick one), boneheaded, dumbass ownership (John McMullen) and overall ineptness.

The end result has been a pitiful few playoff appearances and NO World Series appearances. The days have long past when fans loved baseball first and then their teams. Nowadays it's results that matter the most. The Rockets, even though it has been 9 LOOOONG years, have the skins on the wall. The Astros have squat and there are no prospects for meaningful change in the next several years. As a conequence, very few fans really care about them anymore and that number is certain to drop even more especially after the tease and disappointment of this season.

As for a perceived racial bias in the media toward African-American players, sure, it exists - it has always existed so that should not come as any surprise to anyone. What's important to understand is that the media exists to feed the public appetite for news, views and dirt on the athletes and that they (media) will ALWAYS come down especially hard on the minority athlete because that is what the public wants to see. That, too, should come as no surprise to anyone. That's the nature of the beast as they say. It's up to the minority athlete to be responsible for his/her actions and to exhibit great care in their personal and professional dealings. When that occurs, there is no story and hence nothing for the media to feed upon.

 

The Astros are a passionless team and as a result don't inspire much passion from the fans. They've been out of the race almost the entire year and people have better things to do in the summer than suffer through a losing season with the Astros.

The attacks on Bagwell seem to be getting pretty personal lately, especially after publicly calling out Oswalt the other day. Doesn't help that he can't throw, bats .250 and is making $17 mil. Biggio and Bagwell have been called losers and chokers for their post season play. That seems pretty personal. I'm sure they take it that way.

I'm not sure what the personal criticism of Francis has been, other than during the Super Bowl incident and his initial reaction to being traded, although that's not relavant to a disappointing season. Maybe I skip those threads because they don't interest me. Most of the criticism I've seen has been for his on the court play.

 

There are several good points already, but please let me add one more: You can (nearly) fit a basketball court in the distance from the stands to 1st, 3rd, home. Your basketball players are right there, scantily clad and play an emotional game in the fans' laps. Bags remains aloof from afar while Stevie is wearing his emotions on his sleeve, and sweating on the 1st several rows of spectators. Who will elicit more reaction from me? (With one gone and the other going sooner than desired, which guy will I miss the most? SF - while cheering lustily for TMc! I'll still follow SF in Orlando, but if JB went to DH I'd pay only modest attention.)

Baseball is a great sport, tho MLB is a lousy league IMO.

Basketball is a great sport, tho the NBA, as a league, is slipping.