Barcelona vs Manchester United [Champions League Final]

Ronaldinho at Barca was considered the potential GOAT by many people. Judging by individual skills and set pieces, he was far ahead of Messi.
The thing that seperates them is effeciency and the ability to constantly set the tone of a match. Scoring wise, Messi is like a midget version of Ronaldo, the real one. Both of them can tank through various defenders and the penalty area without bein spectacular, all anticipation and effective moves/feints.

Ronaldinho therefore was the most skilled football player of all time, but Messi may be the best one.

 

Just wanted to point out a couple of points...

Messi > Ronaldinho
Yes, Ronaldinho had a huge year for Barca a couple of seasons back but he only played at that lever for 10-12 moths after that he dropped dramatically. He dropped so low that we sold him for 25 Million the following year. Messi has been consistent for over 3 years now and has been considered the TOP player in the world for those years (3 balon de oros to prove it).

Also just look at the numbers Messi has become the TOP scorer of all time in barcelona history and hes only 24..... thats incredible!!!

I believe this is the best soccer team I have seen since I have been a fan of soccer (including natonal teams) (have been watching since 89´).
There have been good offensive teams in the past and good deffensive but overall this is the most complete team. The scary thing is I think they are going to get even stronger next year they have just signed Rossi, Thiago Alcantara is going to be ready for the first team to help Xavi/Iniesta in the mid field and Cesc might even join the squad.

I think the only way you have a chance beating Barca is playing Mou style of soccer (10 back plus a striker who comes down to help in the mid field). But even this style will not win in the long run (just look at what Real did against barca this year 6-1 between both leagues game for Barcelona and in Champions 3-1 aggregate for Barca). But Mous strategy worked in a one game championship scenario like we saw in the Kings Cup Final R.madrid 1 - barcelona 0 in 120 minute game but:

- Barca was playing without Abidal,Puyol and Valdez that game
- The pitch was small compared to Bernabeu, Wembley or Nou Camp
- The kings cup is not considered a major cup in Spain.

Its going to be interesting if Barcelona could repeat this Champions League title next year and to see if Real or any other team in europe could make any major adquisitions to be able to compete with Barca.

 

I would say that messi is in the same class of Romario, Rivaldo, Bebeto, Ronaldinho, Brazilian Ronaldo, Pele, and Maradona, until he can prove that he is a world champion... dont get me wrong its not like hes gona carry argentina because that team is LOADED with players, he just can win with out xavi and iniesta on the other hand the spainish national team is the world champion.

 

oops!

for example how can we say lebron is better than kobe or jordan if he isnt even a world champion yet, to me he is with elite company its up to him if he wants to start separating himself but....he needs to do it in the big stage the world cup just like the names stated above.

 

So you guys are saying that if Pele or Maradona were American and in other words their chance of winning a world cup were 0 the. They can't be considered best players of all time?

 

I swear the stuff i read on this board everyday still surprises me.
When the f**K and who the f**k ever put Romario, Rivaldo(haha), Bebeto, Ronaldinho and even Ronaldo on the same level as Pele and Maradona??
Please don't insult the last two and Beckenbauer and Cruyff as well.
Pele and Maradona are on a different level than the others.

Now if you want to talk about where Messi ranks amongst the best of the last 20 years then yeah we can put him there with Romario, Ronaldo and Zidane but I wouldn't even call him better than those three yet. He's almost up there with them. All he needs is one sublime world cup and I'd have him there.

 

HOGWASH!
How old are you? Ronaldinho was the most skilled footy player of all time?

 

Bullsh! They don't play as sublimely as they did yesterday but they're not exactly Racing Santander out there when Messi has a bad day or is injured.
You are doing a horrendous disservice to the Barca system, Pep and the insane midfield duo of Xavi and Iniesta. (I ignore Busquets because you can replace him with Keita or pick a player from the Barca youth team or the B team midfield and it would be the same).

Not saying Messi's success is all because of the system but also not going to act like the system and style of play is just something to be ignored.

 

FFS seriously? You're comparing the English national team to the club teams? You do know club teams can have players from all nationalities unlike the national teams right? Hence English clubs do not neccessarily have the same "Bottle it at a big moment" mentality that the national team does and English clubs do not have the same national pressure on them (thanks to the tabloids) that the clubs have right?
English teams never seem to win in the final stages? Seriously why? Don't spout ridiculous stuff and then re-quote yourself.

You do know it took Nottingham Forest three years to win two European Cups(What we call the Champions league now because you may be too young to realize that) while it took Barcelona 37 years to win one and 14 years to win two.
You may want to look up Liverpool FC in the late 70's and early 80's. Feel free to check up who won the trophy(with one of the most impressive comebacks of all time and definitely the most impressive since United in 99.) in 2005.
You do know Man. Utd won it in 2008 and you may want to find out who their opponent then was. Oh yeah it was another English club team, Chelsea.
Piddling Aston Villa have won the European cup but hey, English teams never seem to win at the final stages.
So umm yeah, I've looked at the CL winners and I fail to see who English CLUB teams always dissapoint. Hey I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

Berba didn't make the bench. Word is he had an idea it would happen and didn't talk to any reporters all week and then when it was confirmed prior to the match he left the stadium. (And most I know wouldn't begrudge him that when you consider who was on the bench in his place. Michael f**King Owen. A player that was less effective in front of goal all season than Berba and showed how profligate he was in a walkabout sort of match earlier in the week).

And Nani's creativity is not guaranteed. You never know if you're getting good Nani or bad Nani each game. We needed more than him. We knew it heading into the season. The lack of creativity in the center of midfield is appalling and SAF knew it and didn't address it.
But even if we had Wesley Sneijder or Kaka in there, it wouldn't sort out the fact that Mickey Carrick couldn't cope by himself with both Xavi and Iniesta. It was a rough match for all involved including SAF.

 

Well said. One of the many damning stats from yesterday(still not as bad as the Arsenal match at the Nou Camp so Utd fans can take comfort in that) is that Barca's most frequent passing combo was Messi to Xavi. Man Utd's was Rio Ferdinand to Van der Sar.

 

its just an example Chill out! what i meant is that all these guys had great careers in their clubs but also performed in the big stage and all of them won the world cup. IMO Messi has to win a world cup to be considered the best of all times otherwise it wouldnt be fair for some of the other all time great players , again thats just my opinion.

 

You remind me of the Yao fans who complained about no one on the Rockets team could make an entry pass to Yao.

 

You're obviously a CHOF.

Chicharito Only Fan.

 

Back to the topic...

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Someone please tell me what's the 'XBOX', 'Playstation' about in the commentary?

 

Ferrari77 you are one of those dummies that keep saying old school players will always be the best in every category, just cause you grew up watching them.

No player ever reached the technical perfection of Ronaldinho, that's not even a discussion. Yes he never realized his full potential or how to become a complete player, but you can't doubt his skill package. No player in history could do the things he did with the ball. Show me one, you will fail.

Pretty obvious you didn't follow Rivaldo's career if you laugh at the suggestion. Remember his remarkable hattrick against Valencia that lead to Barca qualifying for CL?

It's also clear you fail to see that Barca really struggles when teams contain Messi, they never looked stellar without him. I never said their system is bad, where are you taking that from?

You can compare English clubs with the National team, they always fail to deliver in Finals, that is well known by all experts. Yes Nottingham and Liverpool had some great moments in the past, but Premier League teams are not as successful as Italian, Spanish or German teams on an international base.

Yes i requoted myself as it was obviously exactly the outcome of the game. 3-1 and they failed to stick to their system.


You don't really seem to look at things from a logcial standpoint, all your posts begin with caps and a childish insult, then continue with subjective theories that can't be proved by history.

 

On a related note, looks like Berbatov took serious offense in not being included in the final, not even activated for the bench. Any guesses where he'll go?

I think Liverpool should absorb him and replace Carroll with him. Berbatov/Suarez duo looks scarier than Carroll/Suarez.

 

There is usually always opinion involved with sports when you discuss who is the best. In the end you've got to look at accomplishments at different stages in their careers.

LOL now this is idiotic. I can name you many, Zidane, Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Muller.....you sound like a 13-14 year old who hasn't seen too many football games of old.

Rivaldo...LOL.

The Premier league is a lot more competitive as a league than any other league. If you can't accept this you don't know football. The rest of the leagues in these other countries are very top heavy. Don't take this from me, but tons of players admit this. I doubt you know more than them.

 

I was going to take my time dissecting this utter tripe but ChrisBosh beat me to it.

No buddy, I don't think old school players are the best in every category but I'm not as quick to toss out the accomplishments of those that played the game in the past just because I see a good player (or flash in the pan) right now.

CBosh already mentioned Zidane and Maradona. He didn't even need to mention Pele. You do realize without even including Pele or Ronaldo, Ronaldinho Gaucho is not even top 3 and barely would make top 5 most skillful Brazilian players of all time right?? Dare I even bring up Zico or Garrincha.
I feel like I'm insulting Maradona by even tossing him in the same sentence skillwise as Ronaldinho.
Is Ronaldinho even the most skillful player we've had in the past fifteen years?
One could make the case that JayJay Okocha was just as skillful. No slight to Ronaldinho's playing career but we're talking skillwise.
Yes boss, I didn't follow Rivaldo's career. I only watched him from the moment he stepped foot in La Liga at Depor until his career started waning out in Greece and he went chasing more money at other clubs instead of retiring.
I remember more than that hat-trick. Rivaldo was the attacking cog in Luis Van Gaal's Barca team in the late 90's. I respect Rivaldo's abilities but I'm not smoking something serious enough to make me overrate him like you've done.
Premier league teams not as successful as... OMFG! I give up.
Reading is fundamental. All my posts begin with caps?? Two out of four posts on this page due to my disbelief at the idiotic statements I saw being spewed.
Subjective theories that can't be proven by history? Now I feel like I'm truly arguing with an idiot and I do know I'd rather not take part in such an argument because I lack experience arguing at the level you may force me to come down to.

 

I'm talking bout dribbling skills and guys come up with players like Beckenbauer, Müller, Cruyff, Pele. Beckenbauer and Müller more skilled? haha now that made it clear you're a troll ChrisBosh. Müller was one of the best strikers of all time, Beckenbauer played Libero and wasn't near the level of other guys.

We're talking most skilled dribblers and you say Beckenbauer, Müller? These players have absolutely nothing to do with dribbling skills.
Mentioning these players=no credibility left for you, ChrisBosh.

Ronaldo and Pele were gifted players but again, more moves for the penalty area.
Again guys, we're not talking bout who scored more goals/had a better career/more accomplishments/bigger legacy.
My post was 100& on pure dribbling skills and ball handling.
People like you just bring up the top 5 most legendary players ever, you're not thinkin bout the point "skill".

Okay ferrari. Zico, Zidane and Garrincha are better suited in that league, I see you know football. Of course you can argue about who's the best, but blatantly dismissing Ronaldinho isn't right from a technical standpoint, you know he belongs up there with the best. I just want you to admit that, I'm agreein with most of your other points.