I think its important to understand how those who wish you harm think, and what motivates them. The purpose isn't really to defend their character. Do we want to understand the factors leading to a particular situation, or simply assign moral blame?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-one-phone-call_n_856674.html So much for that whole torture was a good idea thing.
I'll wait to see what shakes out over the next few months before I render any judgments, good or bad, on how he was captured. Anyway, it is interesting to me that Obama said in his speech that this is the result of him making bin Laden a priority again when he took office, when according to CNN the guy who led us to bin Laden was identified under Bush and they've been tracking him ever since then waiting for him to lead them to bin Laden.
Mathloom isn’t defending Bin Laden. He’s explaining his motives. ATW is an extreme bigot, essentially a 21st century Nazi, and he doesn’t want you to understand the underlying motives. He wants you to hate Bin Laden because he was nominally a Muslim. That’s his game. Like his forefathers hated Jews, he hates Muslims. There is no substance to anything he says other than his hate and extreme bigotry.
I've heard a lot of that history before but I think his hatred of the US extended beyond just their alliance with Saudi Arabia. From my understanding of statements he made was that he saw the battle of Islam versus the West in a historical context going all the way back to the Crusades and the US as the most powerful nation in the West as a heir to the European / Christian powers. Also by making the US a common enemy he could use that to unite the Islamic World. Calling his movement Al Qaeda (The base) he saw it as the base to build up a new Islamic power structure.
LOL, yeah I'm sure that's the only reason he hates bin laden. Man, seems like any time something newsworthy happens, the crazies from all sides come out. Exhibit A: this thread
Camp crazy appears to have two types of inhabitants right now. Type A: Obama derangement syndrome sufferers (ex. bigtexxx, etc.) Type B: Conspiracy wackos (ex. bigballerj, etc.)
I think it is good to try an understand why a person would do such a thing, in order to try and prevent it in the future (although there will always be crazy people who do crazy things). What happened in the Second world war was terrible. But people should try and understand why those things happened. Otherwise we are bound to repeat it. Wow. relax. You are not helping your argument by making this personal. I do not understand why people cannot have civil discussions. ATW and I rarely agree on things related to Islam and politics, but we are polite to each other and I do respect him as a poster. Just because someone has a different opinion that doesn't mean they are Evil or stupid.
Do you read this forum much? Apparently not, because if you did you’d know that that’s pretty much the sum total of what ATW is about. He has posted literally hundreds and hundreds of anti-Muslim posts, full of lies and deception. His hate is extreme and very Nazi-esque, but he directs it against Muslims instead of Jews. And note that I’m a Christian, not a Muslim.
Probably the same reason our intelligence agencies did. If you expect to defeat or manipulate an enemy, it's best that you actually understand their history and their motivations rather than just make them into a caricature ("they hate our freedom!"). The history Mathloom posted is fairly accurate - I would argue that OBL's motivations changed between then and now, but it is very important to understand his goals and AQ's history and growth if we intend to dismantle the organization. Nothing he posted was a defense of OBL, and the idea that he is a rational person is shared by our government and really anyone that has analyzed him. OBL is a very rational person in terms of how he operated - just as many serial killers and other mastermind criminals tend to be. Understanding their motivations and methods is often the primary focus of investigators trying to track those people down.
I'd say it's pretty out there to suggest that OBL's motivations had little (or nothing) to do with religious convictions. It just seems like an odd, out of place, protestation... If that's not what Math was going for, then my bad.
ATW is not expressing an opinion. He’s not making valid arguments. He’s a liar and a hatemonger. A soft spoken Nazi is still a Nazi, and ATW is very often not even soft spoken.
that argument held no water at the time, because if that was the only argument it was going to have the spotlight shown on it once the operation took place. By presenting that argument in the public it might put some pressure on Pakistan to better hold up their end of the bargain. But the idea that you do it, but don't announce it was always silly, because once it's done people will know it was done. There was no problem in announcing it and carrying it out.
