Impeach, or not? A poll on the current status.

This is unfortunately not true. At least not anymore.

The foundations of our democracy have been chipped away at enough that this scenario is plausible, if not likely:

• Dems start impeachment proceedings
• Investigation turns up tons of horribly awful things about Trump that make him objectively (more) unfit for office
• Impeachment vote fails in the Senate
• Trump claims victory and is canonized as a victim of an unsuccessful coup

We all know that the above is 99.99% likely to happen. Where it gets muddy is what happens next:

• Joe Voter barely pays attention -- looks up from his day-to-day grind only to see Trumps' narrative of victory, exoneration, and Democrat failure (very likely)
• Joe Voter is so disturbed by what the investigation finds that he is outraged by the Republican Senate failing to convict and Republicans are thrown out on their ears left and right in response (very unlikely)
• Joe Voter is upset by what is found but ultimately it makes no difference at the ballot box because of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undemocratic institutions like the Electoral College (likely)

Morally and legally, yes, impeachment is long overdue. Politically I have serious doubts. Perhaps the play is that the investigation will conclude after Nov 2020? I don't know. It strikes me as awfully fishy that they've had grounds for impeachment since Day 1 and only decided to pull the trigger after Joe Biden got attacked.

 

This is 100% accurate.

If Trump goes down, he will leave a blast crater in the Republican party so big it could possibly split it in two.

There would be a civil war between the Trump loyalists and the actual conservatives.

Granted, I don't think that effect will last longer than 6-8 years (at most).

 

Great post, but don't agree on fishy part. This latest overreach by POTUS is just so flagrant and so publicly obvious compared to 400 page reports, details of emoluments clauses and all that sort of thing. It's a very different animal, with tweetable quotes from a presidential phonecall and relative clarity on what was happening and what campaign finance law forbids.

If anything, I agree with those saying the DNC would probably have preferred a scandal that did not put Hunter Biden anywhere close to the spotlight.

Warren needs to fight her urges over the months ahead and stay in the shadows of any Senate discussion of impeachment. Harris needs to withdraw from the race and put her skills front and center in the months ahead in the Senate discussion.

 

Using that logic, probably Bernie should get out too, right? Then Pocahontas would have what looks like a straight path to the nomination.

 

So what do you want exactly?

Your main gripe seems to be with the democratic party and you are mad at them because they will not let a candidate you like hijack the party.

I have no idea what your motivations are but it seems you are either a contrarian or you just want what you want.

Who do you think could navigate these political waters/?

Yang?
Bernie?

 

I hope beyond hope that you're right and that Democrats have found a marketable impeachment movement.

Even still, I have major reasons to doubt their competence to win the narrative war.

I will take a step back and say that it's not an enviable position the Democrats have been in and are in. It's a treacherous, uphill fight in every sense.

My feeling is that the closer we got to election day, the worse an idea impeachment becomes.

It's a terrible feeling to think that no matter what the investigation finds 1) Trump won't be convicted and 2) there won't be electoral consequences for Republicans.

That's where I'm at right now. It's not fun.

 

If this is still going on next Summer, as the primaries are concluding and general election contest is getting cranked up, this is going to look like the Democrats do not believe they can win at the ballot box, so they are trying to seize control through the politically motivated exploitation of the impeachment process. And that is not going to be a good look for them.

In fact, it already looks this way to many tens of millions of Americans, with that number sure to grow if the Democrats actually do instigate a formal impeachment process, especially as we get closer to and start moving through the presidential primary election season.

 

Right now I want to focus on winning in 2020.

Anyone who isn't upset with the Democratic party should probably take a moment and reflect. They delivered us Donald Trump, after all. I'm quite happy with my candidate(s) and how they're doing.

I realize that I'm basically painting a no-win scenario for Democrats, and to some degree that is true. They have a very unenviable task.

I was candid in my OP that I have changed my mind about impeachment, so I think that signals I understand how difficult of a needle this is to thread.

If I had faith that there would be political consequences for Republicans vis-a-vis impeachment, I would likely support it more. I think that's the general idea I've settled on.

Save for a fleeting moment during the early Obama days I've been disappointed with Democrats for pretty much my entire adult life (98 and beyond), so, sure, I think some different thinkers deserve a shot behind the wheel.

 

Counterpoint: If the investigation is going on during the heat of the campaign it will be bringing up Trump crimes and mis-deeds at the absolute worst possible time for his campaign and will do maximal damage to his re-election chances.

 

Biden corruption vs Trump's corruption

 

I am not upset with the Democratic party and I don't need to reflect on anything.

I understand how historically obstructionist that Republicans have been and I realize how hard it was to pass the ACA.

You have an idealized vision of what you think the Democratic party and what it stands for.

I think you are the one who needs to reflect and maybe get Bernie to start his own party with like minded people.

 

Keep Hope Alive!

 

You're entitled to feel that way, but I caution you that Bernie and his like-minded people are gaining traction in the Democratic party, not losing it, so, it is you and whomever you support that may need to find a new home soon.

P.S. Clearly you've been lurking on the BBS and have read a lot of my posts (I think) so A) welcome and B) hope you stick around.

 

Once Trump got Barr in his corner, it meant he'd push his operation to the utmost.

Dems have been clamoring for impeachment for two years. Trump has normalized that and I don't think actual charges aren't worth checking that lunatic with his like minded enablers.

Deep State Leaks vs foreign backed WikiLeaks

WHO YOU GOT???

 

It's worth noting that Trump's "Hillary's under investigation" meme did a lot of damage.

 

This is what you guys have been telling yourselves for the last three years. The attacks against Trump, led by an aggressively pro Democrat left mass media, have been incendiary, relentless, frequently deceitful in the extreme, and have the appearance of having been coordinated across media platforms with the precision of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

But wait, there is more. A Special Counsel was appointed to look into these politically contrived accusations, which were instigated by campaign opposition research project funded by Hillary Clinton and the DNC, which was based on information manufactured by Russian intelligence operatives. As stated by Rod Rosenstein, there was no evidence that ANY AMERICAN, which includes President Trump, conspired with the Russians to interfere with or steal the 2016 presidential election from Hillary Clinton. No one. It Did Not Happen.

So obviously this latest line of contrived partisan political hysteria by the Democrats in Congress and their sycophantic supporters in the mass media is just the latest, even more pathetic scheme to bring down their hated political adversary, the current President of the United States, Donald Trump. If the Democrats were confident that they were going to win at the ballot box next year, would they be as passionate about this nakedly partisan effort? I doubt it.

Anyway, you guys have been trying to slime Trump in coordinated continual tsunami type fashion for over three years now. It has not worked the way that you hoped that it would. In fact, it has not worked. Your people have tried every tactic that they know, short of abusing the constitutional process of impeachment, time and time again, with literally everything and the kitchen sink having been trebucheted in at this guy, many times.

So why would you think that the continuation of this failed pattern of behavior all of the sudden become successful? What is the definition of insanity again? Please, if you will, refresh my memory.

 

Bernie is actually losing traction in the Democratic party he is being supplanted by Warren who I support and others.

You really come off as delusional.

 

Well, you're off to a great start with the insults, you'll fit right in here.

I don't see much daylight between Bernie and Warren and a win for her I count as a win for the progressive, new-guard movement.