Zach Lowe: Terrence Jones could be asking for $15M per year

Well,

you sound like a rational guy but somehow you only have "selective memory".

so how can you not including these facts also ?

- Dmo has not played one minute of playoff game last year because he was injured.

- Dmo did not play any playoff games (or maybe couple minutes) a year before because the COACH DETERMINED TJ WAS BETTER, even when TJ lost his starting PF job, he did not lose to Dmo.

- TJ was a no show in last season's summer league but Dmo had been sent there to play even he was going to his third year.

- Dmo played exceptionally well when the Rockets was short handed last year, especially when TJ was out and injured. Oh when TJ was back from injury, he was still being inserted back to the starting lineup, so are McHale and Morey really that dumb?

 

Wait - are you guys pontificating on Danny freaking Granger?

You guys really have lost your damn mind.... I really hate to state the obvious but since not everyone got the memo, Granger at this point is a garbage minutes guy only. He may still be able to shoot the ball, but there is so much on the court he can't do now that he is a serious liability to any team who has to ask him to be anything more than a good for the locker room vet. He hasn't played meaningful basketball in 4 years and hasn't played a full season in 7 years. This is a young man's game and 32 yr olds with bad knees don't typically get too much mercy from opposing players. Let it go.

 

Only you would ever say that Granger > Jones. Seriously.
And when all the other people have a different opinion , people who are not Rocket homers that should tell you something..that you know... Maybe YOU are the one who don't know and are in the wrong. Since you have no proof or evidence that suggest taht a second rounder or washed up Granger that is about to go out of the league is the value of Terrence Jones.
Or the thought that you could be wrong can't possible cross your mind?

And the only thing I agree is that trading one of them would be the best way at this point. But letting them go for nothing it's not an option. Not with Morrey.

But that's it. Enough insults you have thrown at me. I am going to ignore every single future post of yours in the topic of Jones because quite frankly it's like trying to communicate with a brick wall. Your personal disdain for him make you too irrational. Carry on , with your campaign.

 

Only basketbahollic claims that. And somehow every single one of us are wrong and he is right. Because he knows best.

 

Danny Granger? Good Lord.

Can the regular season start already?

That way there's more activity. More threads. More substantive conversation. Less threads getting nuclear bombed by jopat and his obsession with certain players.

 

No doubt about it ... neither has been a useful playoff performer to date
But much like Capella vs Dorsey as Dwights primary backup once DMo went down this year
... I'll take the Unknown Upside of Donut over the Known Downside of TJ going forward
... proven playoff track record be damned

- 2014's DNP-CD of DMo, for me, was just 1 of many coaching mistakes in that series
Allowing LMA to torture TJ all the way to a 0-2 hole was a MUCH bigger mistake

- As I mentioned before, for this team it makes much more sense to have D12 & DMo staggered inside so theyre never stuck w zero-post scoring by playing Cap & TJ big minutes together
Since Dwight starts, DMo can help team much more in 6th man role than starting, and vice versa for TJ
Similar to idea of starting Bev and having Lawson off bench next to Harden
But just like Lawson, IMO, DMo is still clearly the better player

In the end, DM & KM are not dumb ... it just takes them a few months to sort out to rotation inside:
End of 2014 starting PF - Omer Asik
End of 2015 starting PF - Josh Smith

Regardless of who's in the lineup at the 4 opening night, TJ always finds a way to play himself down towards the end of the bench when the games matter most
I have full confidence history will repeat itself again in 2016

 

Tell you what Malakas. Talk to the Bucks and convince them to trade John Henson for Terrence Jones straight up.

 

These numbers don't include contest %.

In other words, it doesn't count how many shots they actually challenge. DMo is quite low, probably because he usually tries to draw charges rather than block actual shots.

Include contest % and you get this:

The elite guys are contesting aroudn 50% of shots while DMo only contests 36%.

http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Estimated Rim Protection Value 2014/15
Points saved vs. NBA average big, 2014/15 NBA Regular Season

Player Team MPG Contest % Rim FG% Allowed Points Saved/GM Points Saved/36
Rudy Gobert UTA 26.3 57.2% 40.4% 2.43 3.32
Andrew Bogut GSW 23.5 61.0% 41.4% 2.08 3.19
Roy Hibbert IND 25.3 53.9% 42.6% 1.84 2.62
Serge Ibaka OKC 33.1 40.3% 40.8% 1.76 1.91
Hassan Whiteside MIA 24.2 59.7% 46.5% 1.57 2.33
Nerlens Noel PHI 30.8 47.5% 45.4% 1.51 1.77
John Henson MIL 18.3 55.6% 46.8% 1.32 2.61
Tim Duncan SAS 29.0 49.7% 46.9% 1.21 1.50
Pau Gasol CHI 34.3 48.4% 48.0% 1.14 1.20
Alex Len PHX 22.0 53.8% 49.2% 1.13 1.84
Robin Lopez POR 27.8 50.3% 48.0% 1.12 1.45
Jonas Valanciunas TOR 26.2 49.7% 46.5% 1.10 1.51
Timofey Mozgov TOTAL 25.3 51.4% 47.5% 0.85 1.20
Andre Drummond DET 30.5 49.2% 48.0% 0.78 0.92
Ian Mahinmi IND 18.8 52.4% 45.5% 0.71 1.36
Miles Plumlee TOTAL 16.4 54.0% 51.0% 0.71 1.56
Tyson Chandler DAL 30.5 53.7% 50.9% 0.69 0.82
Cole Aldrich NYK 16.1 59.4% 51.4% 0.67 1.50
Terrence Jones HOU 27.0 37.4% 45.9% 0.64 0.85
Tyler Zeller BOS 21.1 55.4% 51.8% 0.63 1.08
Omer Asik NOP 26.1 50.0% 51.1% 0.53 0.73
Jusuf Nurkic DEN 17.8 50.9% 48.5% 0.52 1.06
Brook Lopez BKN 29.2 48.3% 49.7% 0.48 0.60
DeMarcus Cousins SAC 33.9 45.3% 47.0% 0.45 0.48
Chris Andersen MIA 18.7 53.2% 50.4% 0.42 0.80
Kevin Seraphin WAS 15.6 52.4% 47.6% 0.41 0.94
Derrick Favors UTA 30.8 40.9% 43.8% 0.40 0.47
Marreese Speights GSW 15.9 48.1% 49.3% 0.39 0.89
Aron Baynes SAS 16.0 47.9% 48.4% 0.27 0.60
Dwight Howard HOU 29.8 42.0% 45.7% 0.27 0.32
Meyers Leonard POR 15.4 39.8% 42.3% 0.25 0.59
Chris Kaman POR 18.9 54.4% 52.9% 0.23 0.44
Kyle O'Quinn ORL 16.2 51.2% 48.6% 0.22 0.49
Marcin Gortat WAS 29.9 47.3% 48.6% 0.21 0.26
Justin Hamilton TOTAL 17.4 47.9% 53.4% 0.20 0.41
Josh Smith TOTAL 27.7 38.0% 46.7% 0.17 0.22
DeAndre Jordan LAC 34.4 44.6% 48.5% 0.17 0.18
Kosta Koufos MEM 16.6 47.7% 46.9% 0.15 0.33
Steven Adams OKC 25.2 39.2% 48.8% 0.14 0.20
Kendrick Perkins TOTAL 16.9 38.7% 46.6% 0.14 0.29
Lou Amundson TOTAL 17.7 46.0% 52.2% 0.08 0.17
Brandan Wright TOTAL 19.4 41.9% 49.5% 0.06 0.12
David Lee GSW 18.5 44.4% 49.1% -0.02 -0.03
Gorgui Dieng MIN 30.3 54.0% 55.8% -0.05 -0.06
Tiago Splitter SAS 19.8 42.0% 50.0% -0.09 -0.16
Mason Plumlee BKN 21.3 46.7% 55.5% -0.17 -0.29
Bismack Biyombo CHA 19.4 45.9% 49.1% -0.22 -0.41
Al Horford ATL 30.4 40.4% 49.8% -0.27 -0.32
Amar'e Stoudemire TOTAL 21.3 47.9% 52.4% -0.30 -0.50
Amir Johnson TOR 26.4 38.2% 52.3% -0.32 -0.44
Donatas Motiejunas HOU 28.7 36.0% 48.9% -0.34 -0.42

 

according to this link Marc Gasol is a bad defender.
And John Henson is one of the best. (he isn't. In fact he's awful ).
Basically a lot of these defensive stats are not good enough to prove much one way or the other. I.E Drummond isn't a good defender at all. He doesn't rotate he ball watches and loses his man way too often.

I think when it comes to defence the eye test and the on off are the best we have available at this point in my opinion.
Also a little ot but this the rockets defence :
http://imgur.com/a/tAmdJ#10
elite pick and roll /roll man defence and that was a huge part with DMO at C.

 

I think Morey mentioned that there is no good public stat for defense. They're all flawed.

But one way to put the question is this: has there ever been an elite post defender who can't block shots? There are good shot blockers who are flawed defensively, but if you're a good post defender you can usually block shots.

 

Chuck Hayes would fall in this category. Maybe the strongest and lowest base defender opponents have to go up against in the post. And his quick hands strip balls out before they are actually a shot. Hayes has been an extremely effective post defender in the NBA without blocking shots.

 

Elite post defender tho? No.

 

And what would that prove? Nothing. You can stick to your absolutism, while intelligent basketball followers remain fluid. I think you're going to be disappointed when a healthy TJones comes back and has '13-14 type of season again.

 

Yes sir!

 

Regardless, it is very hard to quantify and project defense accurately. Most people were still calling DMo soft until we were into the first several months of the last season.

 

Lol, ok.

If you're "elite" category is so large that it includes Chuck Hayes then it becomes almost meaningless.

 

I would guess that DMo's pick and roll defense plus ability to draw charges is very good. Better than TJones.

I'm sure Morey has the stats.

 

elite? I don't know. I don't think so I certainly can't think of anyone. But good defender sure.
Maybe we should ask seth paltrow this question. lol

I mean these defensive stats can pay contradicting picture too. Look
http://imgur.com/a/tAmdJ#12
according to this which is based on the nba site the Clippers is the absolute worst team in the league in pick and roll/roll man defence.
However Jordan is always heralded as one of the best defenders in the league a DPOY candidate.
So does he actually defend at an elite level or he often goes for the blocks out of position?
I think the best way to know if someone is a good defender or not is to actually watch them in multiple games.
All I have watched of DMO makes me think he is a good defender. Not elite but good.

 

I agree with that, I think he's a good defender.

 

Good pull on Contest% ... I tried to use that Nyqwhatever site but couldn't get it to spit out the report I wanted ... thx


As for Elite Def Bigs that don't block shots -
DRodman (0.6) - HoF, 2 DPoYs, 8 AllD teams
COakley (0.3) - 2 AllD teams
BWilliams (0.8) - 4 AllD teams
PSilas (0.2) - 5 AllD teams

All 4 of those guys were known mostly for their D abilities, and made multiple All-D teams with career BpG rates similar to DMo (0.4)


I also think a HUGE part of DMo's low Contest% and Blocks is that he's so prone to foul trouble ...
IE the coaches over-emphasize the need to keep feet on the ground while defending shots inside, just to keep him on the court for offensive purposes

Really, it's a team-wide philosophy ...
Look at our 4 guys on this list:
Terrence Jones HOU 27.0 37.4% 45.9% 0.64 0.85
Dwight Howard HOU 29.8 42.0% 45.7% 0.27 0.32
Josh Smith TOT 27.7 38.0% 46.7% 0.17 0.22
Donatas Motiejunas HOU 28.7 36.0% 48.9% -0.34 -0.42

Unlike most other players on the list, all 4 Rockets had a contest percentage below 43%
I only see 7 others below 43%, and no more teammates (except maybe Adams & Perkins):
MLeonard
SAdams
KPerkins
BWright
TSplitter
AHorford
AJohnson

4 out of 11 is way too high a percentage for this not to be some type of Moreyball team-wide philosophy