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[Zach Lowe] Leaves Harden off his All-NBA ballot, thoughts?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by digitallinh, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    I'd have Harden over Klay and Lillard, but I can see the argument otherwise. Meh.
     
  2. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Disagree. They would've attributed the loss to the Rockets' lack of offensive weapons and expected greater things in 2016 with DMo's return and Lawson's signing.

    It was a talented roster. The best shooting guard, a top 5 center, and above average 3/D role players at pg and sf who could compensate for Harden's poor defense. Then we added Josh Smith, a versatile play-making PF known for his defense.
     
  3. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    agree. its more of a reward base thing here for Klay and lillard for their team's seasons respectively. i can't really fault that.
     
  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I strongly disagree with this.

    Harden would be a talented part of any team in the NBA. After that... I'm not sure we're fielding a single person who would be starting on a true contending team right now. Maybe Dwight, but not on back-to-backs, clearly, and not with the way the game is changing.

    Capella would be a 7th or 8th man on a lot of good teams, and I can see Ariza being a 3 and D 6th man on a decent contender.

    Seriously, look at the Warriors, Spurs, Clips. Hell, even look at the Celtics up and comers compared to our roster.

    So agree with those seeing last year as a miraculous resonance between our various parts and this year as more believable. (Yes, bad chemistry and coaching have really hurt, but we just ain't that good, player to player, in the end.) Just look at the on-court evidence this year at the 1, 4, and 5, +/-, defensive stats, etc. Yikes.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I get it. We're on the same page.

    I guess it's just the sad era of rating-by-clicks. He would probably rather be doing what he does best.
     
  6. JMAD21

    JMAD21 Member

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    Should be:

    Curry
    Westrook

    Lowry
    Harden

    Paul
    Lillard
     
  7. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Disagree. Look at any championship team that was built around a star SG. Now look at their PG. The Bulls had John Paxson and Ron Harper. The Lakers had Derek Fisher. Those were 3/D pgs. Beverly is a 40% 3pt shooter who was on the all-nba 2nd team last year. He's the prototypical 3/D pg.

    And not only is Ariza capable of starting for a contending team, he's actually started for a championship team. He's essentially the SF version of Danny Green.

    I don't know about the Clippers or Celtics. The Clippers rely on CP3 as much as we rely on Harden. The difference is that CP3 is a much smarter player who looks to get everyone involved and in a rhythm.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    He had him tied with Curry for his MVP vote, I can't rmemeber who he gave it to, so, first team.
     
  9. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">James Harden's final 39 games: 30.6 points, 8.3 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.9 steals, 45.9/39.0/86.3 (61.8% TS)</p>&mdash; Jacob Noble (@JacobNoble_HC) <a href="https://twitter.com/JacobNoble_HC/status/721003876594413568">April 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And yet, Zach Lowe kept Harden off his all nba teams. We're at the point where Harden is underrated IMO.</p>&mdash; Jacob Noble (@JacobNoble_HC) <a href="https://twitter.com/JacobNoble_HC/status/721003957070536704">April 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  10. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    B-b-b-b-but all of those Turnovers though! Have you seen those youtube clips of his defense??? I never miss Shaqtin a Fool and Harden's always on there!

    -assumed response from Zach Lowe and his fans
     
  11. mac2yao

    mac2yao Member

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    First of all, Howard isn't a top-five center, outside of name recognition. He's worse than Boogie Cousins, Anthony Davis, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Karl-Anthony Towns, Marc Gasol and Al Horford at minimum and he's arguably below Hassan Whiteside and Rudy Gobert. If you count Serge Ibaka as a center (he mostly plays power forward for the Thunder, but could play center for a team that needed him to), Howard drops even lower. Tim Duncan plays center now with Aldridge at power forward and while Duncan has dropped off a lot from his prime, he's still better than current Howard.

    Also, Josh Smith isn't a good player. Whether you want to label him as "versatile play-making" he's a tremendously inefficient offensive player. He does have some defensive value but not enough to make him an asset when you're trying to argue that this is a "talented" team.

    The Rockets are one superstar in Harden, a declining good player in Howard and role-players beyond that. A few good role-players, a few bad role-players. That's not a very talented team.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    He will make it on the players choice team - so it is all good.

    :)

    DD
     
  13. daoshi

    daoshi Contributing Member

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    This makes no sense. There are only two teams win 67 and more games, which is a sign of all-time great. No ther team even get to 60. You need to put at least two from each team on the All-NBA teams. Basketball is about winning, when you put up the big numbers but not winning, that says something about your value.

    Didn't Kobe put 60pt a game at 38?

    First
    G: Curry
    G: Westbrook
    F: Kawhi
    F: Lebron
    C: Draymond Green

    Second
    G: Kyle Lowry
    G: CP3
    F: Durant
    F: Paul Millsap
    C: LaMarcus Aldridge

    Third
    G: Lillard
    G: I. Thomas
    F: Paul George
    F: Thompson
    C: D. Jordan
     
  14. AXG

    AXG Member

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    The only one I can see Harden (potentially) beating is Lillard. The media loves the Warriors so Thompson likely gets in. Westbrick, Slurry, Paul and Lowry are all locks.
     
  15. JMAD21

    JMAD21 Member

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    You're out of your damn mind!
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Why not comprise it entirely of Warriors and Spurs then if that's your criteria? How does Paul George even sniff the all-star team? The Pacers are about the same as the Rockets. Obvoiusly the slot should go to the best winningest SF so Harris Burns or Iguodola should take that slot.
     
  17. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    I'd still take him ahead of Towns, Gobert, and maybe Horford (poor rebounding). And when you factor in Gasol's injury and the fact that Davis is a PF, then the centers ahead of Howard are Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, and Whiteside. And Howard makes five. That's top-five.

    When people talk about "talent", they're indirectly referring to "potential". However, you're trying to define "talent" in terms of what the player actually did. That's not how it works. An untalented player wouldn't have been able to spearhead an epic comeback in an elimination playoff game.

    How often does a team that's not very talented win 56 games?
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Josh Smith htis year was terrible in both of his stops. He has "potential" in the sense that "if he hadn't regressed he'd be good" - but he has regressed, he's on the downside of his career.

    He once had potential but no longer does. I mean Kobe can "potentially" score 60 on you, if you give him 50 shots and play like the Washington Generals on defense in the last 12 minutes.
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Is there a reason for his regression? Alienated teammates? Lack of chemistry? It's not like he got fat or dated a Kardashian in LA, right?
     
  20. daoshi

    daoshi Contributing Member

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    The winning is the most important factor you look at it, but not the only one.

    Paul George is the only one on my list that I don't have good feeling about it, I don't have a problem to replace him with someone else.

    As for anyone else, they are all most important players on their winning teams.
     

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