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Zach Lavine, worthwhile target next summer?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DonatelloLimestone, Apr 16, 2021.

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Would you max Zach Lavine?

  1. Yes! Elite athletic entertaining scorer, still getting better

    37.0%
  2. No, just a scorer, not worth a max

    63.0%
  1. Fulgore

    Fulgore Member

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    Isn’t Booker free next summer ?
     
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    nope, he signed a max 5 year extension in 2018
     
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  3. DonatelloLimestone

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    not their choice, his agents putting out he plans to be a unrestricted free agent, he tried to leave to the kings at first, but bulls had option to match. This time he gets to choose, all bulls can do is trade him this summer or by the deadline
     
  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    D-rock likes this.
  5. thekad

    thekad Member

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    Trading for a “star” who has never played for a .500+ team is probably not a great idea. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if this organization actually did it.
     
  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    while the Bulls have generally been a joke organization, I don’t think we’ve been much better since Tilman arrived...we’ve had a huge talent drain on the court and FO going from 65 wins to the worst team in the league in just 3 years since he took over

    Tate and KMJ are comparable to the type of talent Chicago trots out IMO. What would make them a better complement for Lavine than what he’s had in Chicago?

    he’s a very nice player...just don’t think he makes much of a difference here with where we’re at

    I haven’t really looked at the next few free agent classes after this year, but with us being at the bottom of the league, my focus is mainly on the draft and developing players for the next few years as opposed to trying to sign top free agents...I don’t think they will be interested in coming here anyways
     
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  7. eliefor3

    eliefor3 Member

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    In all honesty, rockets are going to suck next year too. Hopefully not worst record in the league bad but most likely top 10 pick bad. Hope is get top 4 pick this year, hopefully trade gordon and wall next year for draft capital, get another top 10 pick then you are going into 23-24 with kmp, kpj, Tate as 3rd year players along with wood, top 4 pick and top 10 pick not to mention some of the extra picks they have. That will hopefully attract a superstar to the rockets and then we could be cooking.
     
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  8. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    Lavine is already 26yo. Any growth he makes will be minimal, and he has yet to lead a team into the playoffs in a Eastern conference that is super top heavy and with a lot a teams that are mediocre to bad.

    He will never be the MVP player on a Title team. Plus paying $37.5m/y for a borderline No. 2/No. 3 guy and not a good a defender is a salary cap mistake. It is even more a nightmare if you don't already have a MVP caliber player on your team.

    Stop trying to microwave this rebuild. It never works unless an MVP level player wants to come to your franchise in FA and bring along some friends.

    This is more like baking bread. Slow and laborious.
     
  9. Milos

    Milos Member

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    Ceiling comp - yes
    Floor - could only be slightly bigger Dennis Smith Jr
     
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  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Bulls are keeping him.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    this is pretty spot on. Except you forgot the part how he has some kind of injury every year
     
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  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    This is just business. An extension isn’t close to his market, so you’d turn that down. As for the Kings, here’s what Lavine said when Bulls matched:

    “I never wanted to leave, that's the main thing. But business is business. The offer sheet happened and thank God the Bulls matched it. That's exactly what we wanted to happen. I never wanted it to get to that point," LaVine told Goodwill.​
     
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  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    No dunkers for you Rockets.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  14. DonatelloLimestone

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    that’s fair and more assertive public quotes then what I have, there was more of a story of his disappointment with the bulls management,

    ”"I'm disappointed that I had to get an offer sheet from another team," LaVine, 23, told The Undefeated. "But Sacramento stepped up and made a strong impression. It appears that Sacramento wants me more than Chicago."

    and it may be the case now once your with a city, and team you can’t pretend like you don’t want to be there, just like he was often visually frustrated with the bulls hire of Boylen and there disregard for their players wants, he couldn’t say too much but he had benchings and things like that and the organization stood with coach until totally untenable. The Orlando trade might keep him happy finally getting someone who can support the offense with him, but the reports usually floated by his agent that he is going to be an unrestricted not even considering the bulls extension is noteable. The bulls organization doesn’t have a great rep with players, the crap they pulled with jimmy butler. The ownerships blantant priority of the baseball team

    some quotes from the owner of the team;

    "Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he'd trade all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. I don't know if he really would, but everyone who works here knows this: that what he wants most in his professional life is to win the World Series."

    Asked before the game to compare the Bulls titles to a potential Sox championship, Reinsdorf didn't hesitate. "It's different. This is bigger. Basketball and Jordan were as big as basketball could get. I don't think the NBA Finals are huge normally, but with Jordan they were. But this is bigger. This gets more attention, more excitement. This is baseball."

    In my mind, there's baseball, and then there are all the other sports," the Sox chairman said Tuesday from his winter home in Arizona. "That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the NBA titles, but . . . ."

    "Basketball is a game. Baseball is a religion. Baseball is American"

    So goes to the point of what paul George and Anthony Davis dealt with. Paul George talked about how the franchise is about being good enough, giving an entertaining product, and a shot at competing while being focused on being financially prudent. No harm in that in any business, at the same time the nba economics simply put doesn’t make that tenable to sustain a title shot, likewise Davis had to be with a team that prioritized its foot ball so much they wouldn’t even differentiate executives and staff at times until he left. He lauded rondo as a pg who can get him the ball and bring the best out of him in the playoffs, rondo wanted to come back, they never heard anything...they signed Elfrid Payton.

    So its speculation, I’d say you’re direct quote holds the most weight, but the signs and tides don’t point to Lavine or any great player as a bulls lifer, i hope we don’t go that route. I’m still not over Hakeem in a Raptors jersey. He gave me a ring, that meant something;)
     
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  15. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

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    Pass

    dont spend money like that until you have a player to build around
     
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  16. DonatelloLimestone

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    I think he can grow because not only has he improved both in skill and efficiency each and every year, coming back from serious injury no doubt, but retaining his athleticism. But context matters, the system he has, the players around him, the cohesiveness all make a difference that can take him to the next level. He can carry and be the no 1 option on offense, there are not many players who can be the closer and close out, who can drop 27.5 on the numbers and efficiency like he has, he’s become a 3 level scorer. I get that he would need more, defensive X factor type of talent around him, but I don’t think the bulls have maximized him or the right system or players around him.

    I’d argue that with the way the cap and money are swinging, most teams are going to be paying 37.5 for the no 2 guy, its always hard for us to adjust how much money is going, but the league is raising the stakes fast.

    The other aspect is with the rockets current reputation, the distrust that the owner won’t basically do what the pacers do and just enough to make money that any 1A stars aren’t looking at Houston like the destination we used to be. We can hope for that but more realistic is were going to get the woods type, talented players who want more of a chance to shine rather then any 1A Leonard’s saying this is where I want to be. We don’t have the franchise rep with the owner, we don’t have the coaching system, gm, player infrastructure training philosophy, or facilities that would appeal to a new star. We could, we’re young and rebuilding, the nets went from trash invested in new brand entirely in and out and players wanted to go there, is tillman going to spend like that? I hope, but his track record hasn’t shown a hint of that outside of what he says hell do in an interview.

    But I agree with you and @Reeko that the place we are in is probably more of a slow rebuild. That’s why this is for summer 2022, after our hopeful lottrey pick this summer, after a nother hopeful lottrey pick, both those guys on rookie contracts to be extended later, then woods, Tate, kpj, kmj in 2 years might be ready to get in the playoffs. Having a mix of verts, guys who have done it, just add to the culture and really beggars can’t be choosers. KPJ is going to want big money that will end in the 30s if he keeps his play up. I think our only shot in the dark is someone like D’aron fox getting tired similarly of the losing, despite his contract, and forces his way home, but I’d imagine he would want to play for a MDA coach who really spaces it out for him. That was a huge advantage for us in the buy out market, MDA’s lax spacing philosophy and let it rip free flow style brought in players who loved to run and wanted to get rolling right away rather than a complex system.

    So in some ways I think you’ll be right, I can’t imagine Lavine would even choose us either is the other way to look like it. It hard to think we’ll have this situation where we play almost ot lose each night for another year, let alone a year after that. I guess one step at a time and lets get that pick this year. June 15/22? Is the big day for houston
     
  17. napalm06

    napalm06 Fertitta-McNair School of Management
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    Excellent post and analogy.
     
  18. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I think the jury is still out on Lavine.

    No , he hasn't been able to carry a team to the playoffs in the East but man , look at that roster - Its just as bad as the Rockets outside of Lavine , Markkanen & Otto Porter.
    That roster is made up of G-League rejects ..... & Markkanen only plays about 50 games a year.

    Minus Lavine they'd be as bad or worse than the Rockets.


    No , he isn't a lead dog in the realm of Harden / Durant / Lebron / Giannis that's going to put a team on his back and carry them to 45-50 wins but there aren't many players in the league who are in that class.

    But if you put the right pieces around the guy , its quite possible you build a team that can contend.

    And lets be honest , what's the best way to attract a lead dog ? Have another high quality player and a solid roster to add him to.
    Or have the cap space to sign two of them in the same offseason ....


    No , I wouldn't blow every asset we have to get him here but if you could move Wall out in exchange for Lavine and limited assets , I think you have to explore the option.
     
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  19. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Let me save you some time.

    You can't get Lavine for limited assets.

    You definitely can't get rid of Wall for limited assets.

    Combing both is a fairy tale.
     
    #39 larsv8, Apr 18, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  20. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member
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    It's too early. If we even get to draft a star rookie he'll only be one season in at that point and I don't want to bring in one of the most ball dominant players in the NBA to steal his thunder. Let the squad grow organically. Also, Lavine would have to smash his head on the rim a few times before he willingly signs with the Rockets. If he hates the Bulls he'll hate the Rockets too. What do we have to sell him on? Christian Wood? Vucevic. KPJ? Coby White. Kelly? Lauri. Tate? Patrick Willams. The grass here is the same shade of green.
     
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