Your choice for primary backup PF: Hayes or Novak?

I can't see Shane starting at the 4.
Not quite sure why so many people think he'll see major minutes there.

 

We have no depth. We are so thin that the lineup will occur out of desperation. How we matchup with other teams will determine who gets the minutes at the 4.

I expect Juwan to have a significant decline this year. Hayes should start,but is he really more than a NBDL player?

The 4 is our weak spot.

Battier's career will be shortened with major minutes at the 4.

 

I dont understand all the hate on Juwan? cutting Juwan and getting no one in return??

as much as i dislike him, you have to admit that he is money with that jump shot

and he is still very servicable, a very good backup at that, even though his starter days are over

when we get a decent PF to start (probably Battier), then juwan could play the role of Maurice taylor 3 years ago, coming off the bench and scoring 10 points with a very decent FG%

would I like that? yes very much

 

Anybody who says things like this has very little basketball knowlewdge and/or is saying that out of absolute blind hatred for Juwan.

You don't see to fall into category two so I have to assume you don't know much about basketball.

 

I think Ehsan meant cut him. You know CUT him.

Violent son of a gun that Ehsan...

 

novak will get spot minutes at SF and PF but i see hayes getting more backup 4 minutes.

i think battier can and will play some PF minutes. yes he isnt a true PF in the tradtional sense, but with todays game you need a guy that may lack the size but brings more of a skill set to the floor. Also, i think tmac at pf is a real possibility.

the game is changing, for better or worse.

 

lol. Not a bad idea.

The only thing JHow is good for is hitting 15 footers. So maybe everytime Howard misses one, we can CUT him as punishment. This plan will have to be executed correctly or I suspect it MIGHT work against us in any number of ways.

 

Rocket's PF situation = Depressing.

Shane cannot play PF, not big enough, not a good enough rebounder. Juwon can't because he's Juwon Howard. Hayes and Novak will never be starting PFs, maybe SF one day for Hayes though.

 

Think of this way, in the '94-'95 season, our PF was also depressing with Chucky Brown and Carl Herrera. That worked out decent for us that year. That team was a similar composition to this team. Dream/Yao at center and Drexler/TMac at SF. What made them successful is they had a bunch of shooters on that team.

Then after that we added Charles Barkley and never got back to the finals again. Chuck killed floor spacing and the offense just never seemed to flow after that. I liked the move to add Chuck but they were never the same team.

In short: We don't need a good PF. Good shooters are more important.

We'll never add a PF to matchup in the west so why divert our resources trying? Just concede the PF spot. Instead, create our own mismatches elsewhere on the court.

 

I think you're right.

The guys on 610 (forget which ones) mentioned that TMac was supposed to play more 4 last year but the plan was derailed when TMac, let's face it, couldn't play at all.

TMac creating mismatches at the 4, harassing 4s at the other end. COuld be interesting.

And probably the direction we're going: spacing the floor.

 

Who the PF was on the 94-95 team is debated for some reason, I think it was Robert Horry because he played the most minutes there with Mario Elie and Clyde at the swing positions. I'm pretty sure he started there too but either way he played the most minutes...

It's not easy to find a PF that can rebound and shoot but that's what we need, Juwan is neither, Battier and Novak can only shoot, and Hayes can only rebound.

 

I would rather want Shane at the 4 than TMac

Tmac at 4?? I dont want to risk him getting injured while banging up in the paint on both offence and defense, thats not his nature game and we wont get the best out of him

So I say No to Tmac at 4. (i hope you are kidding about him being a 4)

 

Dumb dumb dumb.

We've been all over this already.

Battier will be our starting 4, TMac will be our starting 3, and we will have a '2-Guard-by-Committee' until one of Head, Snyder, V-Span, or someone else manages to step up at that position.

Yes, we will have the flexibility to respond to different opponents' lineups with differing, flexible lineups of our own, depending on where we can create mismatches with as little disruption to the defense as possible.

I swear, every time I see a thread like this, it's like people have just plain FORGOTTEN that WE HAPPEN TO HAVE A GUY NAMED YAO MING.

These numbnuts who say stupid things like 'Battier can't play the 4' have no understanding at all of what this team is, needs to be, and what JVG is trying to make them be.

We have two All-Stars in our starting five. And not just All-Stars, but arguably two of the very best at their positions. We do not NEED a super-duper power forward. Our problem will not be lack of scoring at the 4, never has been (except in times of injury to Yao and TMac), Our problem has not been defensively, even with JHo as our starting 4, and even with Swift on this team last year. We will always do well defensively under JVG, regardless of the personnel.

OUR PROBLEM IS THAT HALF OUR TEAM WAS A BUNCH OF BRICKLAYERS. You can survive that a little when you have Yao and TMac healthy, but with them out, we had no chance.

What we have added with Battier, Novak, CJ, and even JL3, and others, are guys who have definite skill at putting the ball in the hole when the opportunity arises.

Yes, we're going to be a little weak at the 2, until someone steps up and claims ownership of that spot, but so what? We're in good shape everywhere else, and possibly solid even at the 2, we'll just have to wait and see there - Snyder, V_Span, KA, Head, somehow I think we'll muddle through.

At the 4, the combination of SB, JHo, and Hayes is going to be just fine.

You guys need to stop stressing so much over this.

 

No need to debate this. Thorpe started 35 games. The rest (after the trade) was Herrara, Chilcutt and Chucky Brown. Horry never started at PF until halfway through the SA series in the playoffs. Pete Chilcutt actually got 15 starts in the playoffs--with Herrara out with injury. Elie only had 13 regular season starts, with Horry getting 63 starts out of his 64 total games played. I assume Elie got his SF starts when Horry was out.

What happened was Chilcutt would start, but Elie would come in and Horry would move over to PF. Horry did such a good job on Barkley (taking him away from rebounding position). This strategy worked even better against Rodman, so Rudy T benched Chilcutt 3 games into the SA series.

 

We acquired Battier to spread the floor at the PF spot. Battier is either the starter there or will play significant minutes there against the new genre of NBA "combo-forwards".

Hayes should get the backup minutes as an "energy guy off the bench". He is solid, sets great screens and is a positive on the floor.

Howard should be traded. The minute we got Battier, Howard became beyond expendible. Battier pretty much does everything Howard can do and better.

I dont see Novak getting much PF minutes. I see him spot duty as a backup 3.

 

Great post Nero.

Only thing I disagree with is who is starting at 4. I think Battier will play A LOT of minutes at 4 but I doubt he starts there. I'd bet TMac starts 2 and Battier 3 with Juwan 4. At least until somebody else steps up and clearly earns to be the starting 2-guard.

Battier and TMac obviously start but where they start depends on who can play more consistent. Juwan or Snyder/VSpan. Right now, my money is on Juwan being the more consistent.

You put your best players on the court. Period. ...even if the positions don't match up perfectly.

Last offseason everybody here assumed Stro would be our starter. I said No. I held firm that Juwan would start until Stro PROVED worthy. I was right last offseason and I'm right this time too. Until a SG steps up to earn that spot, Juwan is the starting PF. Count on it.

Can't wait for the season to start so we can finally get some answers.

 

I agree with you, in that JVG will undoubtedly be working overtime to figure out which matchups and mismatches can be worked in our favor by, essentially, deciding between the matchup of JHo-vs-Whoever or the matchup of Snyder-or-Head-vs-Whoever .. whichever matchup there seems best on any given night.

There is no doubt that Battier is superior to Howard in most facets of the game, but that does not preclude the necessity for Battier to occasionally be used as a defensive stopper against a wing. Interestingly, the 4 is an unsettled position almost entirely because of the uncertainty surrounding the shooting guard spot.

Until one of the young guys really steps up, it's going to have domino effect on the 3 and the 4. Fortunately for us, we now have flexibility that we never had before, so no one should be crying about our situation. It should be very interesting to see it all develop.

As for Howard, I have always believed that he is better suited as a stabilizing factor off the bench, a solid savvy veteran with a decent hoops IQ and who can hit the midrange jumper. It's almost textbook for the kind of guy you would like to have come in against the other team's 2nd-stringers.

So while I am sure you are right, at least about the start of the season, it is my hope that Snyder or one of the others makes the decision for JVG, thus allowing the starting roster roles to settle in a bit, and also allowing our bench to solidify. I think after that, we will see Battier start the bulk of the remainder of the season at the 4, and Howard will become a valuable bench guy, perhaps when Snyder has to come out, and Tmac and Battier slide over, situations like that.

Wish it would hurry up and get here.

 

I wouldn't have problem with JVG playing Juwan symoblically as a starter for minimal minutes, and then inserting Hayes or Novak into the game as soon as it is needed. Many a time Phil Jackson masterfully juggled the overly paid veterans and specialists, young or old, on his Bulls and old Lakers teams during their championship runs.

If only one can be put on court, it depends on which fits best for the matchup, as Dakota said. You can only hope JVG the head coach is not dogmatically brain dead. I would love to see both play at the same time, as they are rated to be able to take pressure off Yao offensively and defensively.

Personally I like Novak a little more. I mean how long it's been since we had a playable sharp shooter on a Rockets team? If Novak's uncanny shooting ability somehow shields JVG from the criticisms on his offensive ineptitude, I say why not sit back and enjoy for a while before you jump on him all over again?

 

Everyone who thinks Battier will be the starting 4, consider this for a minute. Which starting lineup looks like a starting lineup, and which one looks like someone doesn't belong.

A: Yao, Howard, Battier, McGrady, Alston
B: Yao, Battier, McGrady, Snyder, Alston

Battier is an elite perimeter defender who can play a little post. If you start him in the post all the time, you take away his best asset. To make a baseball analogy, it'd be like playing Adam Everett at first base.