You Hakeem-bashers are mean-spirited people and hypocrites (long)!

It just saddens me that this is the first rockets since I've been a rockets fan that we did not have a marquee center. Elvin Hayes, Moses Malone, Ralph Sampson, Dream.

I am foremost a rockets fan but I can't help thinking CD and Rudy T. really screwed up this time. We could have kept Dream if two things happend.

1. We actually used him without him b****in about playing time. Dream should not have to b**** about playing time no matter how old he is. He should be the one deciding how long he stays in the game, because he is better than any other option we currently have on the roster.

2. Gave him the final offer they made him a couple of weeks ago instead of that insulting 4 mill for 1 year offer.

 

I agree with 90% of what each of you say.
Scenario 1: Hakeem offered a 3 year 13 million deal at the beginning
Scenario 2: Hakeem offered a 3 year 13 million after months of ping-pong game and an insulting low initial offer.

They mean very different things. In the process of enriching the offer little by little, Rockets have, I believe intentionally, damage Hakeem's image among all fans. Hakeem knows that. He is not so stupid that he doesn't know that for every new offer the Rockets make, the more enhanced his image as a greedy old man becomes. By the 1st offer, Hakeem must have been shocked. By the time of the 2nd offer, I guess Hakeem must have been thinking of a graceful exit. It turns out that he couldn't achieve that because he is not good at PR, nor can he fight with the whole franchise.

Francis' silence is a little disappointing, compared to what Carter has said. Either Steve is advised to keep quiet by the management, or he thinks Hakeem has no value to Rockets at all. Either way, that tells Hakeem that not only the management doesn't want him, the key player doesn't want him neither.

 

Rockbox said:
We actually used him without him b****in about playing time. Dream should not have to b**** about playing time no matter how old he is. He should be the one deciding how long he stays in the game, because he is better than any other option we currently have on the roster.


How could Rudy had played him the minutes he wanted when #1 he was unavailable because he had some ailment, #2 when he was available, he had developed some type of asthma and you thought that he was going to collapse at any second--he couldn't even run up and down the court one time without passing out, and #3 when he was given his opportunities, he would get dunked on by Vinsanity and others and he would get his own dunks blocked by the rim?

I'm sorry but Olajuwon's best years are past him. He simply didn't show anything the last 2 years to justify giving him what he wanted which was around 7 to 10 million a year. I'll be very surprised if he plays all 82 games this season.

 

But what about Hakeem's delusional 10m offer?

I don't get it. Hakeem is allowed to make horrible offers but the Rockets are now?

Houston's offer was in-line with everyone else's... except Toronto's.

Hakeem was benched because he was playing very poorly. And now, at times he wasn't the best option. Last year, there were times when the Rockets were forced to play small ball because he was playing so abysmally. Or injured.

Hakeem set his own playing time? When he was hurting the team? Why not let him design the offense while you're at it.

 

Hi, I really respect your ID. But come on, All the "one more ring" talk is what the management used to cover up things we Hakeem defenders have been talking about. This kind of thing is called excuse (what I used against my teachers), or pretext (to be more professional), or smoke-out (in the military).

Whether Rockets are a contender or not, Hakeem knows that he is not going to be an important piece of the puzzle. So he wants to go to a good team which will become better BECAUSE OF him. I don't think Hakeem honestly believe that Raptors can beat L.A., and he knows Rockets will probably get into playoffs this year. "Conetender" thing is not the reason he leaves Rockets, neither is it what he wanted to say about the Rockets. Stop putting words into his mouth. Even if it comes from his mouth, it is sitll a cover up for the unhappy truth.

 

Dream was not the one who should have been given a pay cut to keep the team together. Shandon should have been paid less. And, if they couldn't offer Hakeem more, then they were committing too much money to Taylor and Shandon. I'm sorry, but losing Dream is not worth keeping Shandon. The Rockets blew it.

 

KD, nice posts.

ZRB, I think you have a tendency to oversimplify things, based on a propensity to prefer cut-n-dry debates..."either this or that."

This is not as simply as giving one player more and another less. Not only are we finding that a change of scenery was part of Dreams equation (thus it wasn't just money), but we also can assume Dawson has a set number for ALL his free agents. You don't go up on any of them outside of a set range; you just let them go and take the cap space instead.

As for the argument that Dream is the most important free agent, ZRB and sailor, please address KDs points about Francis remaining silent all this time.

I am far from being a dream basher, but to be a Rudy basher and say he should have played him more is assuming the Franchise got along with sharing leadership with Dream. Charles Barkley voiced his concerns with Boylen regarding "young players nowadays with CDs in the lockerroom." Do you REALLY think Barkley cares about that. Barkley was a lockerroom leader who loved having fun. He easily could have been going public to say what Dream wanted said.

Dream was the one who didn't join in the huddles. Dream didn't just have problems with Rudy's offense. Why didn't Dream join the huddles. Yes, that is a small point, but no smaller than Barkley's point about CD players in the lockerroom. Besides, many players don't consider it a small point to not join huddles. (Let me start by naming Willie Stargel.) Either Francis should have stopped that silly huddle to accommodate Dream, or Dream should have joined. And what in Barkley's character would motivate him to complain about lockerroom stuff in public, unless he was doing it as a vocal leader--partly for himself, partly for the coach, partly for the Dream.

Again zrb and sailor, why didn't Francis ever go public this summer? My feeling is it would be read as hypocrasy to Hakeem, so the Rockets told him it is better just not to speak. Notice how they were ready to take Mobley to see him, who is supposed to be our ball hog player with an attititude.

 

crispee,

re: francis & hakeem

i found that to be quite interesting, as well. just throwing this out, but is it possible that hakeem had a problem w/cuttino? it would seem to be a possibility. maybe hakeem saw himself as a better go to option than cuttino. maybe rudy, CD, et al, were going to show up - with cuttino - as a way of saying "hey, let's get to the root of the problem." i still don't believe it was all about $$ on hakeem's behalf. his statements have been to varied - and often conflicting - to be that simple.

as for francis & hakeem, i don't believe there is a "rift" between the two of them. i just have this theory that the passing of torches from one dominant franchise player to another can be tricky. hakeem has a fragile ego, imo, and a need to have it stroked. to have a young, young flashy guard come in a have the team "labeled" as "francis' team" probably didn't sit too well with dream. remember the francis statements to the media in his first year about it "still being dream's team"? at the time i thought it unusual, given francis' personality. why go to the media and defer to a player who hadn't been healthy, was/is getting older, and has always been slightly cantankerous? to me, it was a way of soothing hakeem for the better of the team.

as time has gone by, though, francis has performed a coupe de force and said, "hey, this is MY team!" i, for one, am glad he did! but, hakeem had to feel (despite his public statements about "doing what's best for the team") like an outsider. you know the old whell on the new car that's still serviceable, but will need to be replaced soon.

that might be the underlying reason for steve's silence. how much do you want to bet (don't take that literally ) that when griffin's time comes up steve will be speaking up EMPHATICALLY? it'll be a different situation, then, because eddie is young, can be related to (by steve & cat), and will be critical to the championship possibilities of the future rockets. can dream say the same? no.

dream would be extremely beneficial now. but the rockets aren't winning any championship NOW. so fine, he can go to toronto. why cry publicy or, if necessary, beg publicly to keep around a person who has not been a locker room leader, has been oft injured, and has not shown the ability (the past few years) to lead us to the promised land again - esp. when you have your future franchise starting to come into his own? it doesn't make sense to.

factor in that steve's contract is coming up soon, while you're at it. then it - to me - become all to apparent that the rockets HAD TO make their final concession to making it steve's team. hakeem decision, albeit a tad slow for my taste, was the correct one. there's a new sheriff in town. the old one had to go north of the border. there's it's OK to be the deputy sheriff. no one there has ever seen you be anything else.

but, for hakeem, IMO, there's a certain indignity in being the deputy when you used to be the baddest sheriff that town had ever known....

 

HAKEEM OLAJUPIPPEN!!!

Actually, I like the guy and I'll miss him. I agree with Jeff that this was completely two sided.

But mark my words, Toronto is going to be very disappointed.

 

Good point, I may suck.

But it's kinda like this dude. My old lady was wonderful until she walked, then she was an SOB. When she came back she was wonderful again.

Right now deep down in side I hurt but I also don't wish Toronto or the Toronto Dream well.

When Dream walks into the Hall of Fame & it's over, I'm sure I will cheer & be content again.

Until then may the Rockets torch the Raptors every time they cross the Texas border.

 

I just don't get how it was one person's (or organization's) fault or the other. Everyone from the Rockets (Les, Rudy, CD and Cat) to Hakeem himself and his agent, heir to hell's throne, Fegan has said that the Rockets really wanted to keep Dream and did everything they could to do it but that Olajuwon just wanted to go somewhere where he could still compete for a championship.

There is no question that there were tears in the fabric of this relationship for some time, however, to assign blame to one side or the other is ridiculous. There is ALWAYS another side to EVERY story. ALWAYS! crispee pointed out how ZRB tends to make things black or white, right or wrong, but, like pretty much everything else, this was a gray deal.

 

First of all, last season Hakeem wasn't dunked on by Vince for a Rockets loss. That was the season before last. March of 2000.

Secondly when Hakeem did finally get the minutes he wanted, he performed well, and the whole team was better. Last season Hakeem performed well when he was given a meaningful role to play. Even when he wasn't his defense still helped the team.

I will admit that Hakeem was posterized by Vince in at the end of the 99-00 season, but I think in fairness others should admit that once given a more significant role last year, Hakeem responded well.

On another point, I want to say that yes it's correct that nothing is black and white in this deal, and all the parties involved should share the blame. But I do understand Sailor's post.

1. People are fond of saying that Hakeem whined about playing time. He did, but again I think he proved that he was correct in doing so not only for his intrest but also the team's.

Also Dream said at the start of last year that he would change his game plan, and play within the run and gun, but that when he had a mismatch he should be used. So it's not a question of him saying 'give me the ball all the time, or I won't be happy and I'll cause problems.'

He said that he was willing to not be the number one guy anymore, but that's never mentioned by a lot of the dream bashers.

2. Others complain of him crying to the media. But they don't mention Hakeem going out of his way, above and beyond the call of duty to call Rudy while he was on the Radio to make sure that things were smoothe and being blown out of proportion.

I agree Olajuwon's ego played a part, his initial demand of 10 mil was unreasonable, and the guy is human and makes mistakes, but like Jeff said there is blame on both sides. I think Sailor made the point very nicely that many of the Hakeem Bashers only presented one side.

 

Franchisedream:

Go back and watch tapes of Hakeem immediately before he was given fewer minutes.

Then come back and tell me he didn't deserve to have his minutes cut.

He started playing more when he improved. It wasn't like he always played well when he was given the minutes. For much of the season, he just sucked.

 

Every sports team/city loses their stars. They play on another team like Hakeem or they retire. Hakeem thinks he has what it takes to win another ring. Rockets don't (I think the team truly believes that it will not content for anything other than a playoff spot this and next year - with or without Dream). Simple enough.

The money is NOT the issue with Hakeem. That seems clear enough. He's not making much more money since the tax rates are so much higher in Canada. He asked to be traded because he wants to try to win another title before he can't do it no more. Can you blame him? I think his pride is getting the better of him by making him believe he can still do it. Maybe the agent has something to do with that.

Like it or not the 3 points the agent said was the deciding factor for Dream leaving was indeed correct and in that order.

1. Dream wants to try to win again and the Rockets were not going to do it, not with Lakers, San Antonio, Sac in the same division.

2. Dream wants to be wanted for his current skills and not for his past contributions. Raptors sure want it. Rockets only want him to retire as a Rocket. Dream knows it. Sure the Rockets can use a good center but they also have first hand experience with the current Dream's endurance and figure it's not worth it for the skills but the retirement part is good for PR.

3. The money, which in many ways, means respect. Rockets was setting up to resign the other FA teammates and can't get the money to match Dreams demand to be respected and needed.

 

Shandn, you're right. Maybe Cuttino was going there to address the go-to responsibilities. But shouldn't the franchise player do that especially when he refers to Cuttino as "my goto guy." Cuttino did make some really bone-headed quotes in the paper.

 

Crispee: If you're Steve Francis, the last thing you want to do is place yourself in the middle of the negotiations. It's a no-win situation.

First of all, one of the parties happens to be your current employer. In a year or two, you're going to have to go through the same situation. Do you take Dream's side and bad-mouth management, saying they should pay him what he wants? If you do this, how do you think that will affect your relationship and bargaining power when it come your time?

But, just in case you do decide to open your big mouth and cover your own ass by siding with management. Furthermore, let's say the deal gets done with the Rockets, not Toronto. How would you feel in training camp when you have to face they guy you publicly rooted against, let alone play with the guy for the next 1-3 years.

Francis played it smart. These deals are between the player and the team only. It only muddies the water when another player interjects any sort of meaningful discussion into the negotiation.

I blame the CBA. It sets up a situation where teams are shackled in what they'd like to do. Sure, it does more good than harm, but if you have to blame someone or something, it's got to go to the CBA. The owners were the ones that essentially wrote the new CBA (that's why it was a lockout, not a strike). Thus, if you want to blame anyone, blame the owners. The situation they crafted, with player input, created a situation where the Rockets couldn't offer Dream a "fair" salary. There's no way the guy is worth $10 mil a year, but he's worth more than what he would have been making had he decided to sign with the Rockets.

 

driver8:

I don't think anybody wanted Francis to "take a side." Rather, he could have played the same role he did last year for Cuttino. Or what David Robinson did for Tim Duncan.

Call him. Tell him how much you're looking forward to the season, etc. Let him know he's appreciated.

 

FranchiseDream: Haven couldn't have said it better about Olajuwon's performance before he had the asthma, the hernia, etc. I have always felt that he was never the same after he had knee surgery during the '97-98 season. Everyone remembers that season, right? That's when the Rockets went 41-41 and just barely got in the playoffs and then scared the beejesus out of Utah. We would have won that series too, if Barkley hadn't hurt his triceps or biceps or whatever it was in his arm.

I'm simply saying that if the Rockets had paid the money that Olajuwon wanted which was anywhere from 7 million to 10 million, there was no way they could have re-signed anyone else or gotten any other free agents. Yes, Olajuwon played great after the all-star break before the blood clot episode and when he came back. But, seriously, how long would it be before he broke down again leaving the Rockets with another 34 win season?

 

haven, crispee, etc.

i hear what you're saying, but IMO steve francis did that all this past season and the year before. i mean, even when the situation(s) was tempestuous, steve said how important he thought dream was. so i can't fault him at all for not stepping in the middle of this hurricane.

i also have to factor in how "personal" dream can be. he doesn't like people being "in his business" anyway. steve's relationship with dream was on the court. i sincerely believe dream would not want him involved in the business end.

remember that dream wouldn't return calls for a brief while from rudy/CD, either. now, you can say it was because of this or that reason, but this issue should have been priority #1 for hakeem. it is a decision that affected the entire city of houston, the staff of the rockets, his teammates, his friends, himself, etc. so why should anyone believe he would have been receptive to a call from steve?

on a separate note...

does anyone ever remember hakeem having a relationship with ANY of his past teammates off the court? i don't but, hey, as i reach my mid/late 20s, my memory falters...

 

Shandon Anversen said: does anyone ever remember hakeem having a relationship with ANY of his past teammates off the court?

The only one that I can think of is Clyde Drexler and that might be stretching it.