You don't need a shotblocker big man to have an excellent defense

They don't have a shot blocker, they have 3, that means they always have at least one on the floor, and often 2, they are all good rebounders too

Joakim Noah 1.3 BPG (Per 36 Min)
Taj Gibson 1.9 BPG (Per 36 Min)
Omar Asik 2.2 BPG (Per 36 Min) only plays 13 mins, but does the job in his time


For the most part Asik is just a space clogging stiff, but there's a reason those type of players always have a job. You need rim protectors.

 

The only shot blocker opf any kind we have is Jordan Hill. Yao is so slow and broken down that he cant guard a slow moving turtle anymore. Scola and Miller and not or ever have been shot blockers.

 

Rondo was throwing in easy layups all night yesterday, their defense is hardly lethal.

 

When on the floor Yao is the same player he was before the injury, he is just never on the floor, therefore isn't really helping us.

 

Noah is a great shotblocker. End thread.

 

Top 10 teams by defensive rating (I don't know what the hell that is, don't care, it means good defense)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html

Code:

Rk  	Team  	W Pyth  	L Pyth  	SRS  	ORtg  	DRtg ▴  	Pace  	eFG%  	TOV%  	ORB%  	FT/FGA  	eFG%  	TOV%  	DRB%  	FT/FGA  	Arena  	Attendance
1 	Orlando Magic 	          14.9 	5.1 	6.21 	108.1 	100.2 	91.2 	.532 	.152 	.261 	.235 	.478 	.145 	.776 	.218 	Amway Center 	207,468
2 	Boston Celtics 	          14.4 	4.6 	7.37 	109.5 	100.9 	90.7 	.541 	.140 	.216 	.220 	.473 	.152 	.762 	.259 	TD Banknorth Garden 	186,240
3 	Miami Heat 	          16.2 	4.8 	8.49 	110.1 	100.9 	91.0 	.510 	.124 	.229 	.300 	.469 	.137 	.757 	.224 	AmericanAirlines Arena 	255,050
4 	New Orleans Hornets 	12.1 	6.9 	4.14 	105.2 	101.1 	90.8 	.500 	.134 	.218 	.237 	.476 	.143 	.767 	.221 	New Orleans Arena 	138,604
5 	Dallas Mavericks 	14.1 	5.9 	6.43 	108.2 	101.8 	90.6 	.517 	.136 	.233 	.233 	.470 	.136 	.749 	.213 	American Airlines Center 	198,554
6 	Milwaukee Bucks 	8.4 	10.6 	-1.21 	100.1 	101.8 	91.0 	.445 	.132 	.272 	.252 	.486 	.155 	.779 	.256 	Bradley Center 	143,137
7 	Indiana Pacers 	          10.2 	7.8 	1.96 	105.0 	103.1 	94.1 	.501 	.147 	.237 	.212 	.469 	.129 	.756 	.264 	Conseco Fieldhouse 	125,775
8 	San Antonio Spurs 	14.3 	4.7 	7.19 	111.9 	103.4 	94.2 	.512 	.127 	.262 	.259 	.499 	.145 	.751 	.187 	AT&T Center 	180,190
9 	Utah Jazz 	          13.6 	7.4 	4.88 	109.3 	104.7 	91.0 	.499 	.128 	.257 	.249 	.467 	.142 	.706 	.288 	EnergySolutions Arena 	230,879
10 	Chicago Bulls 	           9.3 	8.7 	1.50 	105.2 	104.7 	93.5 	.493 	.141 	.288 	.231 	.486 	.145 	.745 	.246 	United Center

ALL of them have at least 1 lengthy interior shot blocking presence. Some of them have other players in other positions helping out.

Some of the teams at the bottom have shot blocking too, l like the T-Wolves with Darko, or the Wizards with JaVale McGee. So its still about team commitment to defense. But it'd appear having some to bother shots helps out a bit. Imagine the Wizards or T-Wolves defense with Scola or Brad Miller instead of those guys.

 

Asik isn't a stiff at all. He has very low skills. Very low. But he's 7 feet and very athletic and he does not try to do anything that he can't do. He just tries to block shots, rebound, and dunk. He is definitely not a stiff.

 

I don't understand the point of this post. Yao Ming, when healthy, is a pretty damn good shot blocker. Obviously he's not really stellar 1 on 1 against bigs with athleticism and range, and he can be taken advantage of in pick and roll situations... but his help D to stop the drive is pretty good.

And people need to stop thinking that defense has everything to do with the 1 on 1 talent of the players. That has an effect, but you can have a good defensive team while having some players that aren't good 1 on 1 defensive players. The Magic were a good defensive team a few years ago when it was basically Dwight Howard and a bunch of average defenders on the perimeter.

 

Never in NBA history has a team won a title without an elite interior defender. Not once.

 

If I recall correctly, Horace Grant was All-NBA Defense team many times. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

But Shane's not an interior big. He gets a fair number of blocks on wing players taking semi mid-range shots, or from behind on a driving guard. In other words, his block numbers don't have the same interior defense correlation as a shot-blocking big does.

And Jordan Hill is even more of a back-up big than Taj.

Honestly, I don't think your thesis is as far off as some. I see a coupe of problems. First, as noted, the Bulls do have some decent interior defense. Not great, but more than you are making it out to be. Second, the Bulls defense is good...NOT excellent. Third, while you may not need a shotblocker big man to have an average or above average defense, you do need one to have an elite defense.

Short of a shotblocking big man, you have to at least have above average interior defensive players to have an above average defense. The defender actually tipping the ball is a somewhat overrated stat, right. It should be viewed in combination with how difficult your big's are making the other teams shots, blocked or not.

 

Big, big problems with your deduction.

First, nearly every shot that Battier blocks is from help defense. I do not recall ever seeing him block a shot by the player HE is defending.

If your #1 shot blocker comes from weakside help defense, you don't have much in the way of real or intimidating shot blocking. I can't prove it, but I suspect Noah's presence alters a helluva lot more shots than Battier sluffing off who he is guarding.

Secondly, your primary logic asserts that since Battier and Hill are Noah's equal, therefore the Bulls don't have shot blocking. Then please explain why the Bulls as a team rank #4 and the Rockets are 19th. Beyond that, the Bulls have the 3rd best blocked shots differential. The Rockets are a woeful 23rd.

The other Top 10 in shot blocking differential are MIA, OKC, DAL, IND, Utah, ORL and NOH. The teams lower than HOU in differential are TOR, CLE, LAC, DET, GSW and MIL. See any trends there?

 

He was on the all-defense second team from 92 through 96.

Then they had some role players that filled in consistently and solidly on the interior. Cartwright was never a big intimidator, but Perdue had some decent shot-blocking years (2.1 per 36 minutes their first championship), Scott Williams, Cliff Livingston, etc.

Again, the OP isn't completely nuts. It's not a requirement. But then, you'd have to have maybe the best backcourt defensive duo of all-time (Pippen & Jordan - maybe an exaggeration, but they were an elite defensive combo), and then otherwise solid defensive play out of every other position. Which the Bulls got, consistently. Their bigs weren't elite, but Horace anchored a solid interior defense that had role players that were solid against the pick and roll, great rebounders, could challenge shots without getting fouls, etc. A missed shot is the same as a blocked shot...maybe ultimately even better, since you are more likely to get the defensive rebound.

Another thing to keep in mind, today's NBA is a lot different from the NBA back then. We are so much more guard oriented, with so much less leeway for big men to challenge on the interior...I don't think that Bulls interior defense would be as good today as it was then.

 

Thumbs down on posters who don't know the difference between a interior shot blocking from a length defender and weak side shot blocking from a wing.

You can't compare the two.

 

For a team with no shot blockers, Noah was fantastic with 4 blocks and Gibson had 2 blocks in limited minutes. They altered many shots.

 

Stats sure say otherwise...

Top Teams in Opp. PPG (Block Leader on each team):

Magic: 91.4 (D. Howard 2.4bpg)
Hornets: 91.8 (E. Okafor 2.1bpg)
Mavs: 92.2 (T. Chandler 1.4bpg)
Heat: 92.3 (J. Anthony 1.3bpg + Big 3 = 2.4bpg)
Celtics: 93.0 (J. O'Neal 1.4bpg + Shaq&Perkins)
Bucks: 93.2 (A. Bogut 2.6bpg)
Blazers: 95.7 (M. Camby 1.7bpg)
Jazz: 96.7 (A. Jefferson 1.6bpg)
Hawks: 96.7 (Smith + Horford 3.1bpg)

3rd to last - Rockets: 106.9 (Battier 1.5bpg)

 

I would say 75% (if not more) of blocked shots are against players that the blocker isn't guarding. Usually how it works is someone drives to the basket, and said big man comes off his guy and blocks the layup from the weakside.

I'm sure people will try and argue the actual percentage... but the point is that I think I would rather have someone that blocks a lot of shots off help defense but can't block their own guy than vice versa. Because if you block a shot in help defense that means a guy beat his man and you prevented a basket... but if you blocked the guy you were guarding, you had to have been already there in front of him to block the shot and you'd be just as effective making his shot difficult by putting your hands up (unless you were recovering from a rotation, in which case it's basically the same as a weakside shotblock).

Also, I've already said this before but I think Yao could be said blocker that we need in the middle.

 

Probably more than that.

I don't think the key difference is being able to block your own man's shot. I think I've seen Battier do that -- he's a good all-around shot-blocker for his position. Its about having a presence in the interior -- not just getting the block but also changing shots. Its hard to get that from a wing player.