1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Yet another White House delay for the smelly turd that is Obamacare

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    This time out of pocket caps are pushed back. This is a costly provision of Obamacare, and has driven up college students' health care premiums at many schools.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...e-delay-out-of-pocket-caps-waived-until-2015/

    Yet Another White House Obamacare Delay: Out-Of-Pocket Caps Waived Until 2015

    First, there was the delay of Obamacare’s Medicare cuts until after the election. Then there was the delay of the law’s employer mandate. Then there was the announcement, buried in the Federal Register, that the administration would delay enforcement of a number of key eligibility requirements for the law’s health insurance subsidies, relying on the “honor system” instead. Now comes word that another costly provision of the health law—its caps on out-of-pocket insurance costs—will be delayed for one more year.

    According to the Congressional Research Service, as of November 2011, the Obama administration had missed as many as one-third of the deadlines, specified by law, under the Affordable Care Act. Here are the details on the latest one.

    Obamacare contains a blizzard of mandates and regulations that will make health insurance more costly. One of the most significant is its caps on out-of-pocket insurance costs, such as co-pays and deductibles. Section 2707(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by Obamacare, requires that “a group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage may not establish lifetime limits on the dollar value of benefits for the any participant or beneficiary.” Annual limits on cost-sharing are specified by Section 1302(c) of the Affordable Care Act; in addition, starting in 2014, deductibles are limited to $2,000 per year for individual plans, and $4,000 per year for family plans.

    There’s no such thing as a free lunch. If you ban lifetime limits, and mandate lower deductibles, and cap out-of-pocket costs, premiums have to go up to reflect these changes. And unlike a lot of the “rate shock” problems we’ve been discussing, these limits apply not only to individually-purchased health insurance, but also to employer-sponsored coverage. (Self-insured employers are exempted.)

    These mandates have already had drastic effects on a number of colleges and universities, which offer inexpensive, defined-cap plans to their healthy, youthful students. Premiums at Lenoir-Rhyne University in Hickory, N.C., for example, rose from $245 per student in 2011-2012 to between $2,507 in 2012-2013. The University of Puget Sound paid $165 per student in 2011-2012; their rates rose to between $1,500 and $2,000 for 2012-2013. Other schools have been forced to drop coverage because they could no longer afford it.

    According to the law, the limits on out-of-pocket costs for 2014 were $6,350 for individual policies and $12,700 for family ones. But in February, the Department of Labor published a little-noticed rule delaying the cap until 2015. The delay was described yesterday by Robert Pear in the New York Times.


    Delay needed to align ‘separate computer systems’

    Notes Pear, “Under the [one-year delay], many group health plans will be able to maintain separate out-of-pocket limits for benefits in 2014. As a result, a consumer may be required to pay $6,350 for doctors’ services and hospital care, and an additional $6,350 for prescription drugs under a plan administered by a pharmacy benefit manager.”

    The reason for the delay? “Federal officials said that many insurers and employers needed more time to comply because they used separate companies to help administer major medical coverage and drug benefits, with separate limits on out-of-pocket costs. In many cases, the companies have separate computer systems that cannot communicate with one another.”

    The best part in Pear’s story is when a “senior administration official” said that “we had to balance the interests of consumers with the concerns of health plan sponsors and carriers…They asked for more time to comply.” Exactly how is it in consumers’ interests to pay far more for health insurance than they do already?

    It’s not. Unless you have a serious, chronic condition, in which case you may benefit from the fact that law forces healthy people to subsidize your care. To progressives, this is the holy grail. But for economically rational individuals, it’s yet another reason to drop out of the insurance market altogether. For economically rational businesses, it’s a reason to self-insure, in order to get out from under these costly mandates.

    Patient groups upset

    While insurers and premium-payers will be happy with the delay—whose legal justification is dubious once again—there are groups that grumbled. Specifically, groups representing those with chronic diseases, and the pharmaceutical companies whose costly drugs they will use. “The American Cancer Society shares the concern” about the delay, says Pear, “and noted that some new cancer drugs cost $100,000 a year or more.” But a big part of the reason those drugs cost so much is because manufacturers know that government-run insurers will pay up.

    “The promise of out-of-pocket limits was one of the main reasons we supported health reform,” says Theodore M. Thompson of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society . “We have wonderful new drugs, the biologics, to treat rheumatoid arthritis,” said Patience H. White of the Arthritis Foundation. “But they are extremely expensive.”

    The progressive solution to expensive problems? More subsidies. But subsidies don’t reduce the underlying cost of care. They only excuse the high prices that manufacturers and service providers already charge.

    It’s one of the many aspects of Obamacare that should be repealed, if we are to combat the rate shock that the health law imposes on tens of millions of Americans. But that will require Republicans to come up with a smarter strategy than shutting down the government.
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    494
    I wish we could delay the smelly turds that are posts by liltexx. What a maroon.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    insults only from you? Are you unable to defend yourself on the topic?
     
  4. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    He is talking about smelly turda. its in your thread title
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    but then he called me a maroon. Again, insults only serve to call special attention to those who lost an argument -- they are unable to argue so they resort to insults, as it's all they can do.

    Where have the Obamacare defenders gone?
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    It's the law bro

    deal
     
  7. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    19,075
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    I guess your thread title signals capitulation. Your surrender is accepted.
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    if it's the law why is it being postponed?
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    of course I mean personal insults. Insulting the turd that is Obamacare is insulting a policy or program.
     
  10. MiddleMan

    MiddleMan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    267
    Hopefully it works out.
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,526
    Likes Received:
    38,964
    This was actually already unofficially delayed as I mentioned on this BBS awhile back.

    When the people who were actually responsible for building the plans got to work they found that it was impossible to build a plan that complied with the OOP requirements and the price requirements for the bronze level plan. HHS gave unofficial guidance that the OOP requirements would not be enforced as written.

    Humana applied for deductibles of $5,000 in the state of Texas, which well exceeds the $2000 cap mandated under the law. United Healthcare did the same.
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    so effectively we have a law that is not being enforced. Swell job on the healthcare plan, brahs
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,526
    Likes Received:
    38,964
    Well the taxes are being enforced. If you have health insurance you or your employer has been paying about 4% more in premiums due to taxes alone, including the the so called "death panels" tax. It's actually the PCOR fee.

    None of the fees or taxes were delayed.
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    well awesome. All the taxes, but the benefits are compromised. This just gets better and better. :rolleyes:
     
  15. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,202
    Likes Received:
    6,070
    i thought Rand made some sense last night, and he certainly seems comfortable in the lion's den.

    <div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><iframe src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/embed/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:428495" width="512" height="288" frameborder="0"></iframe><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-12-2013/exclusive---rand-paul-extended-interview">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></p></div></div>
     
  16. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    494
    Note that I didn't insult you, just your post title. You should be familiar with the concept.

    BTW, you seem to be of the opinion that I am an ACA apologist, I'm not, which you would know if you paid any attention and/or actually read anything I had written on the subject. Sadly, you have shown your near complete lack of reading comprehension skills repeatedly in this forum, it would appear you prefer ideological assumptions rather than reasoned, intelligent debate.

    Color me unsurprised.

    I will stand my my "maroon" comment, you have earned it...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/C_Kh7nLplWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,526
    Likes Received:
    38,964
    There are actually quite a few provisions being enforced, but I think everyone knows that so I didn't bother to really point it out.
     
  18. Felixthecat

    Felixthecat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    189
    I thought of this quote by President Obama when I read this thread.

    "It's just become an ideological fixation," Obama said, adding: "There is no doubt that in implementing the Affordable Care Act, a program of this significance, there are going to be some glitches. ... That's true, by the way, of a car company rolling out a new car. It's true of Apple rolling out the new iPad."


    How does The ACA affect teachers in Texas?
     
  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,899
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    Do you think you can just lie to my face and not get called to the carpet on it?

    You called me a maroon, therefore you insulted me personally.
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,526
    Likes Received:
    38,964
    Impossible question to answer.

    It's no different than saying "How does The ACA affect engineers in Texas?"

    There will be teachers who benefit significantly from PPACA and there will be teachers who are severely hurt by it and there will be some who don't notice much of a difference.
     

Share This Page