Again, you're twisting my words. I said I'm willing to sit through 10-20 win seasons for five years or more if that's what it takes to put us in a position to win a championship. Which is radically different from WANTING to sit through a five year period of winning 10-20 games. And really? You don't have the patience? Because it's been 15 years since we've won a championship and we're nowhere near close to winning another. It appears to me you'll be waiting to be a contender regardless, it's simply my opinion that if we traded away our veterans and rebuilt via the draft eventually our wait would come to an end. I don't see how it can otherwise. But you tell me your plan.
You'd also have to count the seasons of suckitude that SA had to go through before getting David Robinson with the top pick in 1989. It was actually a two-pronged tanking strategy by the Spurs on their road to their first two rings.
Okay calm down weirdo... What you and Trugoy are proposing is to remain competitive and never actually win anything. So if I was you I'd STFU..
Want the Rockets to win? Get Kevin Martin to go bowling with Dwight Howard in the summer and develop a friendship.
We're a very talented team. We're not some scrub team who's overachieving and having to max out every game to win. We're simply too talented to suck for a whole season. If you want these guys to be a high loterry team, then you're asking them to quit and not play ball. We're not gonna suck unless they trade all these guys for garbage and why would they do that? It makes ZERO sense to even talk about "tanking" unless we've got multiple injuries. Yao's absence alone wont make us suck that much. We would probably need 3 rotation guys out or Scola to suck that bad. Both are unlikely. There were opportunities to get guys via free agency or trade....stuff just didnt go our way. Ama're, CP, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Iggy, Deron, Al Jefferson, Melo, Roy...we're all at some point seriously considering leaving. Some went elsewhere and some stayed put because their team made changes. Roy probably would have asked out soon had he stayed healthy. 2 of them, melo and iggy, will probably leave soon. I think it's crazy that such a great organization with great players and coaches hardlly gets any love from players trying to split, but i guess that's the Yao-factor.
Actually, I'm not asking them to quit. I'm advocating blowing it up and rebuilding. I would trade away Scola, Battier, Miller, and even Martin and one of Brooks or Lowry. All I'd want in return is potentially high lottery picks and young talent. As for your list of players who were available via free agency, the only ones who seriously considered it left and they never considered us. And as for Melo and Iggy, Melo has no interest in us and Iggy is a second fiddle at best. Hell, many would argue that the same is true for Melo. If you'll look back at those 25 years of championship teams, most of the guys who won the MVP in the Finals were MVP contenders year in and out. We need an MVP caliber player and I just don't see us acquiring that guy through trade or free agency.
OR our wait could continue. Let's look at the Blazers for example, how close are they now than they were five years ago? Answer: They're still at the same exact spot. When they drafted Roy they had their franchise player, one who could potentially bring them a championship and then they were gifted another present, Enter Greg Oden... they could possibly have had a dynasty. But many factors changed and swept away their dreams and they're back to square one. This could be the same thing that happens to us. HEY STUD, I'm not proposing mediocrity. But yes I want to stay competitive. Like I said before, Morey hasn't shown us that he is content with anything, his moves if anything have pushed us more and more upward than downwards. We have only given him ONE YEAR to rebuild and look for a star. ONE YEAR since McGrady and Yao have shown that they can't be our franchise. Give it two more years at least. It's not like we've been doing nothing since then. Douche.
Hey guys, here is a quick one for you! How were we able to contend in the last 8 years? Oh yea, by drafting a guy called Yao who was able to attract another star in T-Mac.
Your facts are WRONG. Lakers only missed the playoffs ONCE in the 90s, and their draft pick of that year had no impact on any of their championships. Spurs are one of the winninigest franchises of all time, going back to their ABA days. From their formation in 1967 till the david robinson draft of 1987, they've had 3 seasons without making the playoffs. Grant Hill left Detroit in 2000, in fact detroit only spent ONE year in the lottery, that was the year directly afterwards. Post Mourning pre-Wade lasted exactly ONE season, if you call that an era then good luck to you. Celtics once again you are seeing facts that are not there. Rondo was a 21st pick, Perkins was a 27th Pick. The centrepiece of the KG trade was Al jefferson, who was also not a lottery pick. You are using selective BIAS to make your arguments. I could say, Most Lottery teams in the past 25 years in the NBA has been built around a top 5 pick of their own drafting.
And I understand that nothing is guaranteed with the path I am suggestion. The whole point of my original post, however, is that it's nearly impossible to obtain a superstar on the path we're currently on and even less likely we'll win a championship. As such, I'd like to rebuild through the draft.
it is nearly impossible to attain a superstar through the DRAFT either, in fact looking at NBA champions, i would say it is easier to get a superstar through Free Agency and trade than through the draft.
First, I appreciate the fact you did a little research. I like a well supported argument. But apparently what you consider bad and what I consider bad are different things. But I consider a team led by Nick Van Exel and Cedric Ceballos to be pretty bad. And making the playoffs doesn't make you a good team AT ALL. Were the Timberwolves good when they went all of those years making the playoffs but never getting out of the first round? In the NBA, more teams make the playoffs than don't but there are never more than 8 or so good teams in the league. You can say I skewed those facts or even invented them (though I was just mistaken about some of that stuff), but you're skewing them in your argument too. The Spurs may be the most winningest team in NBA history, but they were terrible for years before David Robinson joined them when they were able to draft guys like David Robinson, Sean Elliot and Willie Anderson. Then they had the one incredibly bad year where they lucked into Tim Duncan. And the Pistons were bad for numerous years after the bad boys and before Grant Hill as well. And hell, they weren't much to talk about with Grant Hill even. And while there may have only technically been one year between Mourning retiring and them drafting Wade, come on, man. They weren't good in Mourning's later years. The Celtics is the only place I'll agree you got me. I didn't remember Rondo or Perkins going that late and I didn't do the research. But if you want to talk about skewing the facts, you claim Jefferson wasn't a lottery pick either. Technically that is true - but he was taken 15th. ONE PICK AWAY! Seriously, man? Regardless, the Celtics were not a good team for years before they acquired KG and Allen.
Dude you are clutching at straws now, I am saying that we don't need multiple seasons of 10-20 wins in order to contend. and the facts agree with me. Also note that NONE of champions EVER traded productive players away for draft picks and potential. Basically you are advocating a strategy that has never ever resulted in a NBA champion.
Actually Robinson was drafted in 1989. The five seasons prior to that, the Spurs made the playoffs three times but those were different times. Their win-loss records during that span: 21-61 (1988-89) 31-51 (1987-88) first round 28-54 (1986-87) 35-47 (1985-86) first round 41-41 (1984-85) first round Nowadays, this would be only good for five straight trips to the lottery.
In the CBA era, the only superstar that has won with the team that drafted him are Wade and Duncan, all others have been via Trade or FA so draft = 5 Trade, FA = 7
I agree... we should have considerations for our players, coaches, GM. Tanking is selling out, man. If most of our players were injured, I'd be fine with it but that really isn't tanking, that's sucking because our best players are out. Imagine you are Daryl Morey for a second, how do you propose to Les that you want to tank to get a franchise player? How do you tell your players to lose on purpose? Or how do you explain to your players why one of their teammates was traded so we could suck on purpose to get a high draft pick? By tanking, you are risking Daryl Morey's job... and how many good GMs are there we can get to replace him?
