Yet another incident of racism on an airliner...

oh, i know - but its still a real hoot responding to his wacky non-sensical posts.

 

Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
Ill be watching you

Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
Ill be watching you

Oh, cant you see
You belong to me
How my poor heart aches
With every step you take

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
Ill be watching you

Since youve gone I been lost without a trace
I dream at night I can only see your face
I look around but its you I cant replace
I feel so cold and I long for your embrace
I keep crying baby, baby, please...

Oh, cant you see
You belong to me
How my poor heart aches
With every breath you take

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
Ill be watching you

Every move you make
Every step you take
Ill be watching you

Ill be watching you
Ill be watching you
Ill be watching you
Ill be watching you...

 

I'm coming very late to this thread and have only read through the first three pages so forgive me if these points have been brought up already.

Racism might not have been the main motivator but it certainly appears to be a factor in this I think arguments could be made either way how much racism played a role in this. The bigger issue to me in something like this though is that what this shows is the danger of overzealous actions of passengers.

Yes its true terrorism is a threat but at the same time overreacting passengers could also be a threat to airline safety. A plane in flight is a very stressful environment to begin with and no doubt some passengers are on edge already from fear of flying or clausterphobia. One overzealous passenger thinking they are acting on a threat could end up precipitating a disaster themselves by causing a panic and / or a brawl onboard a plane.

I certainly believe passengers should be vigilant about a potential threat but until it actually materializes into something, like someone trying to light their shoes on fire, the best thing would probably be to sit tight and tell a flight attendant instead of trying to take things into your own hands.

 

You're quick to jump on people who you consider making blanket statements yet you seem to feel free to make a blanket statement like that. And you wonder why other posters don't feel you have any credibility.

 

No it is not irrational to be afraid. But to let said fear dictate your lifestyle and override your convictions is more than irrational, it's pathetic.

 

I don't know but that sounds like some great armchair quarterbacking to me. Have you ever felt in peril? cornered?

This was a huge gaffe, but your haughtiness towards people who acted in what they thought was self-preservation is just kind of odd...

 

OK I've gotten through the thread and a lot of this hinges upon what is irrational and what is rational.

I'm throwing my cap firmly in the irrational camp. Yes its a fact that Arabic Muslim men hijacked planes and flew them into buildings and yes it is a fact that they have threatened to do so again. Its not an impossibility that such a thing could happen on any given flight but it is of very low probability and a rational thought process would consider the probabilities of such an action occuring. For instance consider that many times more are struck by lightening than they are killed by terrorists so given that its a proven fact that lightening has struck and killed people does that mean that I should never go out when it rains given that its not an impossibility that I will be struck by lightening? Does it even mean my fear of being struck by lightening is a rational fear? Most people would say low since the probabilities of it happening is very low, much lower than the probabilities of being killed by a terrorist and far far lower than having a car accident.

The problem with stuff like this is that as humans we are easily taken up by the sensationalistic to the point of ignoring probabilities if some rare event gets a lot of publicity. Its the same type of thinking that makes people continue to by lottery tickets even though the odds of winning are even less than getting struck by lightening, twice. Fear of events or people that have an extremely low probablity of occuring to any given person at any given time is considered paranoia which isn't rational.

So yes Arabs have hijacked planes and have threatened to do so does that mean that on my flight to Boise I should be suspicious of the dark skinned guy listening to his ipod in seat 7G? Given the probablity no more than I should of any other passenger and much less than I should be of the overweight 50'ish white dude drinking heaviliy and blabbering semi coherently in 8C who probably is a greater threat of having a heart attack or getting in a fight when the flight attendent cuts him off. Something that has happened far more often on flights than terrorism.

 

who was in peril? the guy listening to his ipod then headlocked?

 

I'm not sure what you mean.

Have I been afraid? Yes.
Have I ever had a gun to my head with someone telling me to do something? No.

Does that really change the principle? Or in the case of terrorism, is that not a perfect example?

What are you implying here? That it's reasonable to let fear dictate one's life?

 

What's the alternative? They headlocked him because of the way he was nodding his head to the music?

There is no doubt that this was a mistake of monstrous proportions but the de-humanization of the "culprits" is not necessary. I'm sure no one enjoyed this.

 

This is but one brief incident which I'm sure everyone involved is remorseful over. The need to de-humanize the culprits and to ridicule their response is understandable... only if you are the victim. I'm sure you think they are all Republicans or something...

This is one circumstance-- a circustance with no way out. I'm sure these people don't go around have fear generally nor do they let fear dictate their lives... yet that's what you mock them for.

I see no need for it.

 

Wait, so I unfairly mock them, and you unfairly excuse them? More on that later...

I'm an equal opportunity offender, according to wnes.

First, I never mocked them. Fear is understandable. But I pity someone who lets that fear change them. Fear is something to overcome - not submit to. There is no nobility in fear - that's why so many historical figures have rallied people to overcome it.

You can call that pretentious or grandiose, I suppose. In the same vein, I can call your defense of idiots via the "reasonable fear" clause stupid and inconsiderate.

We've had these types of conversations before, giddyup. You seem hellbent on excusing people for giving up, whereas I chastise them for it.

 

I get your allusions to FDR and Winston Churchill. Those are great and inspiration times. Those were also speeches made over the radio to people sitting around their living rooms or bytheir firesides. Those words were not intoned on the PA system of an airplane at 30,000 feet where mayhem has just broken loose.

 

Say what? Those were times of real fear. hardly great.

I'm not channeling JFK here, or using historical anecdotes as rationale. But feel free to think that if it makes you more comfortable in your excusing.

 

Instead of crying racism, why don't you offer up a solution?

 

In New York, no adult is allowed into a school unless they pass through security and they have been cleared as a parent or someone who works at the school.

If I saw some white dude trying to avoid security or do something suspicious, hell yeah he should be stopped and questioned.

 

You don't go play golf in a Thunderstorm...is that an irrational fear???

 

Let's define suspicious behavior then....

What might be included in that? Clearly trying to light your shoe on fire is suspicious - but let's list some others...

Sweating?
Looking very nervous or uncomfortable?
Not saying hello to any of the crew when you board the plane?

I don't know man....if anyone looks like a terrorist when they get on a plane it's me. And the pilot looks at me, and I just smile and say hello, and he smiles back. Trust me, I make people nervous if I'm quiet or in a bad mood. I understand this, which is why when I fly, I engage the people around me and always stay relaxed and polite. I've never been questioned, held up, or bothered for my race. I've flown into the south, the west, the north, and the east. I've even done things such as refused to sit down because the seat was too small, and just hung out in the back of the aircraft to keep my legs streched. Guess what? Nothing happened!

Why is that? nearly a hundred flights since 9/11 and nothing? How strange? Maybe I don't act suspiciously? Hmmmmmmmm could that be?