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Yao's Value

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by linzhihao, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    Kaman does get doubled. Hell, any decent guy that can post up gets doubled. From jefferson,boozer, even guards that walk in the post gets doubled.

    When I said thomas at the 2,3,4 I mean he can releive shane at the 3. When shane comes back, shane relieves tracy. In certain situations against teams, u can play him at the 4 with his size and atheleticism. That's why teams like him or love him. He's a big versitile guy that can dribble,shoot,post up, pass,run and jump at 6'10 240lbs. In a backup role he would replace head,hayes, and novak.
     
  2. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    So if it's talent and not position then how is it Shaq has a championship and Kobe doesn't? In fact, how is it the Lakers haven't been out of the first round since Shaq left? And since when have T-Mac or Kobe been known for their defense, especially T-Mac?

    As for AI not knowing how to pass he's averaging better than 7 APG right now and over 6 for his entire career. Anthony's averaging a respectable 3 for a forward.

    The last I checked the Nuggets were one of the top scoring teams in the league, and in terms of scoring duos AI and Carmelo were ranked #1.
     
  3. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    Yao gets doubled before he gets the ball. If you can't appreciate the fact that Yao draws a lot more attention than Kaman does you're just in denial, for whatever reason.
     
  4. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    AI's averaging 26 ppg and 7 apg. Kobe's at 28 ppg and 5 apg.

    It looks to me like Kobe's the one who doesn't know how to pass.
     
  5. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 Member

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    I can't believe you just said this.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

    Kobe has 7 All-NBA Defense team awards under his belt. AI/T-Mac/Melo have combined for 0.
     
  6. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    You make some valid points in other post.....but you can't be serious when you say teams aren't worried about Yao Ming when play the Rockets. Why do teams pack the paint against the Rockets and use illegal zones with 2 and 3 players with Yao....I doubt SA would use Duncan, Obracio, and Bowen to zone up Kaman.....that would be insane.

    You know when most coaches drawing up plays to stop the Rockets offense, you know great deal of attention is focused on Yao......I pretty sure teams are not worried about Battier, Alston, and the other as much, as some 7,6 guy who has been averaging about 22 - 26 points for the last 3 years.

    And that's not concern for the other team.
     
  7. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    We haven't been out of the first round so what the rockets have done hasn't worked. Phoenix has been the to west finals a couple times with no real center. Whatever works works. There is no real set formula. Some people value yao way too highly.

    At this point in his career he really hasn't done more than dirk and everyone always trashes dirk on the board.
     
  8. BarkleyHater84

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    My GOD, stick with the guy!!!! If we traded Hakeem after the 91-92 season because the owner said he was lying about his injuries, there would be no clutch city, no banners, nothing. We would be like Sacramento or something, a good franchise, but no banners to show for it. Stick with Yao, it's not his fault China is running this man into the ground. If he actually had an offseason every now and then, maybe he wouldn't get hurt.
     
  9. BarkleyHater84

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    Phoenix will never win a championship with Steve Nash or with the style they are playing. Screw "participating in the conference finals" we are talking about championships. Ask San Antonio, LA, or MIA, or even detroit. The Bulls were the last team to do it ever without a dominant big, and that was ages ago. No, there is no real formula, but there is something we like to call a PATTERN: DEFENSE AND BIGS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
     
  10. linzhihao

    linzhihao Member

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    I never questioned your loyalty to the Rockets, and enthusiasm to NBA. It's respectable, but irrelevant to our discussion. Second, if you really consider yourself as a "student of basketball", you should be more cautious making conclusions like "Morey would be the dumbest gm ever", even it's based on a hypothetical trade decision. It's not a student's job to judge the greatness of all gms in the NBA history, it's professor's. And what made you think that people with different opinion are being "blind" and "disnoest" to themselves? Is that a "student"'s thinking?

    I accept your appology on behalf of every Asian fan who felt insulted by your irresponsible comments. If there exists such fans who "think the franchise never existed before him and can't survive without him", I'll join you and blame them too. But please show me where they are ? And what they have done to deserve this accusation ? And I do believe that Yao's Asian background does benefit Rockets and Les financially and therefore makes Yao "untradable" (by untradable I mean that Les will turn down any reasonable trade idea or any feasible trade plan on the market involving Yao, I'm not saying Houston Rockets will "fold up" after the trade. I'm just saying Les will not VOLUNTARILY trade Yao) based on the following FACTS:

    FACT 1: Les's asset increased 10 folds since obtaining Yao.
    FACT 2: Les made some well-known investments related to Asia, especially China.
    FACT 3: Many Yao's teammates gained out of their relation with Yao.
    FACT 4: The league with no doulbt earned money out of Yao.
    FACT 5: Numerous NBA players come to China more frequently to participate commercial activities in recent years, so they of course earned money from these activities.
    FACT 6: Les is a successful business man.

    Conclusion: I speculate that Les has earned a lot out of Yao. Do I have any solid proof ? No I don't, but neither can you provide (or at least "have you provided") any direct proof to deny my speculation. I just don't believe any smart businessman like Les will fail to gain something out of this special situation while everyone else close to Yao has earned his share, either money or reputation. Even ME, YES ME, surprisingly found last night, that my little pathetic meaningless article has been translated, and reported by 163.com, just because the article is about Yao, ming. It's right there:

    http://sports.163.com/08/0324/12/47Q5S97J00051CA8.html

    BTW, 163.com has traffic rank of 104 out of all the websites in the world, which means my little article could have been viewed by millions overnight.

    http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/163.com

    Now, under this circumstance, if you still believe that Les can't find a way to crack into China's giant market with this huge advantage, don't you think that's an INSULT to Les's business IQ ? Maybe next time you can go to China yourself to have a real feeling of Yao's influences. I hope you won't get shocked.


    DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REVENUE SHARING ANYMORE. It's off the topic. I'm tired of explaining this, please refer to my previous posts.

    That depends on how you define "production". Yao's production on-court can be replaced by another player, but his financial production can't. At least not this moment.

    Did you confirm the number of "2/3" with any website authority ? Or it's just brought out of your head ? And let me tell you something, the fans on this forum has never been composed of "Yao fans" and "Rockets fans". People become Rockets fans for different reasons, and almost every player has his loyal fans, Yao sure does, TMAC does, Scola does etc., and don't we have a fan called "Battierbabby" who joined this forum purely because of Shane Battier? And if you think you can get rid of all these player-only fans by trading Yao, think again ! Because the player who got exchanged with Yao, whoever he is, will bring in another group of his fans. So enjoy arguing with "Kobe only fans", "LeBran only fans" or whatever only fans at that time. And by the way, I don't agree that a fan is more "true" than others just because he lives in the city. If you local fans really want to show your loyalty to the club, how about make sure to fill out the arena every game ? how about arrive for the game ON TIME ? How about not to make the head coach pay in order to get a little noize in the game ? How about not leaving so early while the game is still ongoing ? especially the last one, don't you guys think it's a respect to the players to watch their games to the end ? Our guys are still fighting out there, and you already abandomed them just for avoiding some traffic jam. Is that something a true fan will do to his team ? You know it's a shame that Rockets can't play in China, otherwise we will definitely make sure that every opponent will become a half-deaf when they walk out of our arena, if they can still walk !

    Finally, please understand that I will never be offended by different opinions. But I will definitely feel offended by people who reply without reading first, write something totally off-topic and then rant some ridiculous accusation with no FACTS to support. I'm sure you will feel the same way too.

    Have a nice day, Sir !
     
  11. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    Kobe I will concede can play defense. The original poster however was arguing that AI and Melo don't play D while Kobe and T-Mac hypothetically would. The Kobe half of that pairing, maybe. That's why I wrote "...especially T-Mac".
     
  12. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    I do remember the jazz playing yao man to man after game 3. Its one of those things of how much can u count on a guy that has missed 29 games per yr for the last 3 yrs.

    Talent, not sentiment wins in the nba. If u can get a guy 2 yrs younger that has played in more games that rebs and blk more shots and scores 4 less points, plus get a lotto pick and a versitile thomas for the same money, its a valid trade proposal.

    Part of me says yao will at least be as productive as this yr and play in 70 games, but history says he won't and every year we'll just keep going through this.
     
  13. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Great teams win championships. Yao is not shaq or Duncan. They both took their teams to the finals by their second year. I would not say detriot had great bigs. Sheed is good sometimes and ben was a 6-8 center. They won cause of great d, and good gaurd play. The heat won because of dwayde and the refs. Without Kobe shaq doesn't win championships. You need to have both big guys and gaurds. Yao is a very good player, but don't put him in the same category as td and shaq.
     
  14. qiqi522

    qiqi522 Member

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    I am a chinese, I am not a fan of rocket, I pay attention to rocket due to yao ming only. Maybe only 1 out of 10 the chinese rocket fans like the rocket with yao out, may be less. In China, everyone know Yao, including the old lady who don't know any sports, especially in Shanghai, Yao's hometown.
    do u know, before Yao' joining how many Rocket's game had been broadcasted on Chinese television? What is the number after Yao's joining.
    how much the Rocket get from this?

    do u know Nike still engaged in making profit the last couple years, why? because of the Chinese market, it increased larger and larger. Does the Rocket give up this huge market?
     
  15. tsunami

    tsunami Member

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    Go blame Les my friend. If you think Yao is not good enough to lead the team to a Championship, Just ask Les to use the money he earned from Yao to buy the best players. Luxury tax? just pay it. The money Les gains from Yao can let him buy Kobe, Lebron, bla, bla, all together in one team, plus luxury tax. It all depends on Les' determination to win. Well, obviously Les doesn't want to do this way, he puts the money gains from Yao/China/Asia in his own pocket, rather than buy more top players. That's fine. But then you guys should shut up and stop complaining Yao is not good enough to win a ring for Rockets. Simply put, the money Yao gains for Les could let the owner buy the best roaster in the league. You trade Yao? yeah, you might just get a better player (than Yao), but so what???? That's just one player, On the contrary, the money Yao earns for Les could let Les buy three, four, or more top players (but of course, it's totally another story if Les doesn't want to use the money to buy great player and pay luxury tax). So go figure. Conclusion: Yao brings the most amount of money to the owner, who could potentially use these money to buy the other great players.
     
  16. tsunami

    tsunami Member

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    Stop your bullsh!t about nba revenue sharing program, please. Geez, the thread opener has repeatedly explains the point. I am not talking about advertising boards in TC, jersey sale, etc, etc. These are just small potatoes. I am talking about the investment Les makes in China!! He invests in China companies, creates joint-venture companies, invest in China stock market, invest China real estate, etc, etc. All these are irrelevant to the league, OK? Sharing? Sharing my ass! Les DOES NOT need to share his profit with the league for these kind of investment. Yes, without Yao, Les could still do these kind of investment in China and Asia. But the existence of Yao makes Les much easier and makes much more money than without Yao. (actually I read an article indicating that Les didn't do a lot of business with China/Asia before Yao joined Rockets). And now, because of Yao, Les' exposure to China market, China real estate, stock, joint-venture investment, etc, etc, becomes bigger and bigger part of his business empire. Comparing with these investments, TC ticket sale, jersey sale, whatever, are all just small potatoes. Go figure! Again, if Les wants, he could use the money he gains from Yao to buy other top players if he really want to win it all. Well, obviously he decides to not do this way, rather, he puts the profit in his own pocket, or do other things.......
     
  17. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    To the above poster, if les is making all this money from all these ventures and is scared of the luxury tax, then he needs to sell.If that's the case and I don't know if it is or isn't , then he's donald sterling 2. The great paying people that got him that new arena (before yao) so he can have revenue from lux suites, downtown prime real estate and he's pinching pennies, he gotta go. All those ventures are relevant to zero if u don't help the team get over the hump. One thing I know about houston, we can be a non caring type fan base if u don't try to win a title.We can find other things to do if you want to field a non championship type squad. The weather is good, the women are hot, and there is a lot to do and see. The arena already is below capacity during a lot of games. When houstonians sense the owner isn't doing enough or the team is 1 player away and the owner isn't doing anything, we'll watch at home for free.
     
  18. T.Mcgrady

    T.Mcgrady Member

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    WTF are you talking about? Ever heard of the salary cap?
     
  19. zhan19861022

    zhan19861022 New Member

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    the same as 井底之蛙 :p
     
  20. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    I remember the Jazz starting out man to man after game 3, but then I also remember them running in Kirilenko from the blind side over and over again. Frankly I don't understand what missing games has to do with being doubled when you do play. Kobe's had some injuries and missed some games too--do teams really not double him just because of that?

    Again, I think it's a little early to be writing the book on Yao's susceptibility to injury. Prior to this year all of his injuries have been freak accidents. An infected toe due to improper grooming of an ingrown toenail? Come on, that's like saying somebody's injury prone because they slipped and fell on the sidewalk.

    As for a trade it's not only a question of how many points get scored but how. As it stands now the Rockets are comfortable dropping the ball into Yao, waiting for the double and then exploiting it with a cut or some perimeter three's. That's not an option if 1) the new guy can't consistently demand a double team and 2) he can't pass out of it.
     

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