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Yao was billed as a Temendous passer, What happened?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Zacatecas, May 28, 2007.

  1. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    Personally I think having him at high post is ridiculous. Why even bother moving him to high post. WHY EVEN BOTHER GETTING HIS ASSISTS UP.
    If his turnovers went down by 1 or 2 every game I would dare say that more then makes up for 1 or 2 assists a game. If anything he can be a better low post scorer by reducing his turnovers. His already very efficient in low post, being able to score from both sides of the court. I don't see why we need to move him to high post. Where on earth does this new athletic Powerforward stand in all of this then? gees. i think his assists will go up when the motion starts flowing and he has more cutters and open shooters to pass to
     
  2. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Yao is an unselfish person by nature, and willing passer. But people get that confused to mean he's a GOOD passer and some great distributor of the ball. He simply has never been a great passer or ballhandler from the outset. Yao being a "good passer" was something everyone claimed Yao was so they could feel good that he was offering some kind of useful skill early in his career.


    What he needs to do is work on TURNOVERS, not giving up the ball to the other team. And keeping himself on the court. Though he did a very good job of keeping his foul count down this past year.
     
  3. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Um, maybe, just maybe, one of the main reason for his TOs is the predictability of his moves in the low post? Maybe, just maybe, if we move him to the high post SOME of the times, his TO number might go down plus his assist number might go up?
     
  4. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    I sometimes can't believe what I'm reading. We have a guy here who when he's able to catch it near the hoop shoots near 60% and we have people here trashing the former coach for developing his mindset to score every time while simultaneously jizzing in their pants over the prospects of the new coach taking him out to the perimeter to up his assist average by 1 or 2. :confused:
     
  5. Panda

    Panda Member

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    That mindset of "no, thanks Jeff" comes from the realization that Yao was shooting 44% in the low post and wasn't dominant at all as a low post robot in the playoffs. The dominance in the low post in the regular season was a gimmick against lesser defense. Yao lost something that makes for a great low post player - the sheer aggressiveness and creativity under the influence of JVG's robotic approach. He is mentally reduced to a robot who is fixated on using his not-so-great strength and stamina to bump off the opponents. It's a wrong approach to his low post game as well as face up game. Yao need more freedom so he becomes not just regular season great, but also playoffs great. The first step is just let him play his game.
     
  6. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    That's the problem: "when he's able to catch it near the hoop..." perhaps you may add "without being double-teamed, without being stripped"

    I believe you have read enough of us here. Why do you keep saying that we want to "take him out to the perimeter"? Haven't we said enough that it is not an either/or thing? What's wrong with taking him out SOME of the times to open things up for him to operate easier when he is actually in the low post MOST of the times?

    And it is not about upping his assist average. It is about opening up the offense. Who cares about who gets the assist as long as the whole team pass well?
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Revisionist history aside - you can't lose something you never had: quickness, hands, and decisionmaking. Yao's had none of these things in the NBA. Maybe in China against a bunch of stiffs. Maybe compared to a bunch of plus-sized bench fodder like Chuck Nevitt and Shawn Bradley. But not compared to most NBA regulars.
     
  8. declan32001

    declan32001 Member

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    To expund on what Panda said, Yao taking less beatings during the course of a game and help his stamina, and yes it seems reasonable to assume that Yao could still be effective doing it.

    I don't understand why what Adleman said is such a radical concept. Well, unless you buy JVG's garbage that "Yao isn't highly efficient outside 8 feet."

    Funny that JVG has this bbs so hypnotized when most analysts have said for years that Yao's not being utilized properly. There is a distinct possibility they were right.
     
  9. Panda

    Panda Member

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    What's your point then? That Yao not being dominant in the playoffs is not a result of being reduced to a low post robot, but because he is not quick, has no hands and is bad at decision making in the low post? It might be true, but that's just your guess right now as we've only seen Yao as a low post robot. However, if your great Jeff Van Gonedy knows Yao is not quick enough and blahblahblah to succeed in the low post, why does he keep exposing Yao of those weaknesses in the low post?
     
  10. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    Honestly, If Yao can't control it in the low post against one or two defenders what makes you think his going to keep the ball in the high post? Second of all, if he shoots from the high post or passes from there who on earth is going to be playing the low block for us? So we'll have Yao sitting on the high post and the other mainly perimeter players that we have. Unless of course your suggusting that Hayes or Howard is the person playing up there. His turnovers have nothing to do with playing too much in the low post. Its cause he just doesn't have good ball security.
     
  11. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    Look i'm not chineese or even asian, but the term "Chinkman" sounds pretty rude to me. :confused:
     
  12. YaoFanatic

    YaoFanatic Member

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    The problem with the way JVG had Yao playing was simply a lack of imagination. Of course being in the low block is theoretically the best way to utilize him for the highest FG% shots. But doing that 90-100% of the time is not only simplistic and predictable, but just bad offense. I suggest more of a balance such as:

    30% low block, 30% high post, 30% elsewhere/decoy, 5-10% 3pt/pick and roll.

    This way you would see him pass more, and when he does shoot, he'll be more open because of this unpredictability. Therefore even though he will be taking more long range shots, they will be higher quality, so overall his FG% may even stay the same or go up! The down side maybe he will get less trips to the FT line....
     
  13. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    ^^^THATS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE YAO'S LACK OF STAMINA AND ENDURANCE WONT ALLOW HIM TO PLAY IN SO MANY POSITIONS.we need to be realistic... yao needs to still be a primarily dominante low post player . occasionaly use he's passing prowess in the elbow or the high post.
     
  14. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    scuse That begs the question of
    does Duncan play that much in high post? Does all the other post players play that much in high post? Zach Randolph, Jermaine ONeal etc...
    I think its unrealistic to expect Yao to act like Garnett all of a sudden
     
  15. Hmm

    Hmm Member

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    Unfortunately, Sishir Chang, this post and this stance will never be acknowledged or considered.. Too many fanatics on both sides whose train of thought is either or.. It's one way or no way..

    You dare bring up the novel idea of "balance".. and you get crickets chirping. Something so simple suddenly becomes incomprehensible to the one-sided and short-sighted masses. Then you get guys like MadMax, thecabbage and SamFisher acting like someone pissed in their cereal with just the notion of variety with their center, just he happens to be 7'6: The obsession with the stigma that all players that tall simply have to be planted as legally close to the basket as possible ALWAYS or all hell will break lose because a player that tall and that heavy just isn't capable of versatility. Even if he's already clearly shown he is.

    High post passing? Pish posh.. here's stats that say his passing is the same now as a low post robot than they were then as a freestyling rookie. Court vision? I'll deride this as a myth.. if he had the ability he would've gotten better at it no matter how much of his training since then has been strictly on low post banging where the only two passing options were backdoor cutters and spot up shooters. Jump shots? He made near 44% of them in his rookie year.. but he sucks at them now, besides 44% isn't all that great, even for a rookie, no matter how much we applaud Juwan Howard for it when he's hot. I'll take 60% under the basket every time.. even when the teams that adjust won't allow it EVERY time. I just don't like the idea of change now matter how it can help the team or the player and give opposing teams more to worry about.. He's 7'6! I don't care how players that play against him go on about how suprisingly mobile and adaptive he is, not even if Hakeem himself says it.. I don't care if Yao himself mentions harnessing "old skills" under his new coach.. because i've already dismissed it all as a myth, idiotic... and uhm.. He's 7'6, slow, stiff and should always be on the low post!! ALWAYS!! BLAAAAAAAAARGH!


    Do these people actually think Yao is going to just forget everything JVG helped him achieve for those 4 long arduous years of training, as soon as he starts tapping into and applying what he himself considers his old natural talents into his practice and game preparation? Just because the purists find it unnatural to their own vision of what's "dominant"? Do these people not see that Yao has ALREADY mastered the low post game to the best of his ability? 26/11/2 before the injury.. He's NOT going to forget or abandon that which has gotten this kind of production out of him, nor is Adelman. The numbers we use to justify Yao remaining on the low post, the numbers are hard earned numbers that clearly state.. the man just isn't going to get any better staying there. He's not going to do any better against double or triple teams, he's not going to immerse any more from an injury in the low post than he can now, we certaintly know he's not going to get stronger and so his positioning isn't going to improve any more than it already has. And those numbers aren't going to be any more or any less impacting on a game than they already are when the rest of his team isn't doing much of anything to help the cause. So, why not mix it up?

    As for this team needing "guys who make their shots". Didn't Calvin Murphy a once effecient shooter say, "As a shooter, when the shots just won't fall, you have to start looking for easy buckets to slowly build up your confidence and get into a rhythm until your shot comes back", or something to that effect? Need I point out all those offensive runs the entire team did with McGrady? Yao being irrelevant when the shooters just weren't hitting their shots? How 26/11/2 would sometimes have zero impact on a game? Can't you all see that mixing up things with Yao could do nothing but HELP the team?

    I just don't know what else to say..
     
  16. Panda

    Panda Member

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    A lot of TOs from Yao are a result of FORCE feeding him in the low post. The defense knows when and where the pass is directed. Not the case with Yao facing up and teammates constantly moving.

    Something to clarify, no ones is saying Yao should be parked in the high post. Mix it up and keep the defense guessing. The defense has to react to a Yao shifting in and out at his choice.

    The gist of Yao playing a hybrid game is to avoid Yao becoming methodical in his approach to the game, which further fosters a free and proactive mindset that Yao needs to get to the next level. Every great player needs freedom to foster the "it" mentality. Jordan's game evolved from dunks to fadeaway shots at his own choice, ain't no assistant coach told Jordan how should he play his game, that he can only drive in and dunk instead of taking fadeaways. Yao needs that chance to be free, he has been imposed. Whether he can be a great player or not is to be decided after he's given a choice. So far, he's being allowed to play half of his game methodically.
     
  17. Jonhty

    Jonhty Member

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    that will make Yao another Divac at best. even Divac probably played at the low block more than 30% of the time. if you got your wish, expect Yao to play his way out of top 20 players in NBA.
     
  18. Panda

    Panda Member

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    It's simple to tell why Yao needs to step out of the low post once in a while. He's just not going to be as dominant as Dream or Shaq in the low post for the duration of a game. He could be as dominant as Dream or Shaq down low for stretches, but not a whole game and every game, so his best moments need to be saved for the end of games, or when we need a basket.

    Those who thinks Yao could be Shaqlike effective, I guess, forgot how dominant Shaq was in his prime. He came in and destroyed any defenders team thrown at him. Teams stockpiled big men not to stop Shaq, nobody could, but to have more fouls to employ "hack the Shaq" strategy. When Sahq played the Rockets, I got a little nervous everytime Shaq received the ball down low, it's usually either a foul or two points. Shaq was not called the MDE for nothing. I don't think Yao could ever attain the dominance of Shaq, so the distance between him and Shaq in the low post needs to be compensated outside the low post. It's a must for getting the most out of Yao.
     
  19. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    When I checked the title of this thread was about passing and not the back to the basket scoring. Yao's played 5 years in the NBA and is still averaging the same amount of assists means that while he hasn't been ruined he hasn't improved any in that category since he was a raw rookie. While maybe not ruined it shows that the promise that he showed in passing has a rookie hasn't developed.
     
    #79 Sishir Chang, May 29, 2007
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Or maybe it shows that the "promise" was an illusion. Rodrick Rhodes showed promise too. Does anybody here blame the organization for not developing him into a superstar? Or maybe it wasn't that good to begin with.

    it doesn't stand to logic that a slow to react guy with bad hands like Yao is going to be a great passer. His slowness hurts him in a lot of areas - it causes his TO's, it hurts his rebounding, it hurts his defense. I'm not surprised that it would hurt his passes too as he has a tendency to telegraph them. Perhaps people are just overrating his passing ability.
     

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