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Yao was billed as a Temendous passer, What happened?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Zacatecas, May 28, 2007.

  1. BallBoy

    BallBoy Member

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    Valid point. Thanks for pointing it out.
     
  2. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    I agree.. People act as though Yao will either be Shaq or be Brad Miller. Has anyone considered that Yao could transcend both? A great passing big man who can play both high and low posts along with getting lots of point in the paint while also setting up the rest of the team?

    No... Lets instead argue that Yao has to be either a low post player or a high post player. :rolleyes: I believe that Yao can do both and that was the thing that people talked about when Yao was first being looked at.
     
  3. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    A lot of that does have to do with his passing ability and where he sets up. If Yao has his back to the basket and has to dribble into the paint to get his shot that is where he makes those kind of turnovers as opposed to setting up in the high post facing the basket and looking to pass or if he sets up lower and can make a quick pass when the double team comes.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    True, stats don't tell the whole story, but if you get under 3 assists there is probably something wrong.

    The reason his kickouts end up being passed around in search of a more open shooter is because he didn't make the pass quick enough or accurately enough or didn't make the right decision. Also, because of his lack of mobility a late attacking double team (after he starts dribbling)is pretty effective against him.

    Everyone agrees Hakeem became a much better passer as he matured, and his stats reflect that. His stats jumed from 2.2 assists in 91-92 to 3.5+ the next year and he stayed above 3.5 for 4 sraight years.

    But I also agree that the Van Gundy offense was a problem. Too many crappy shooters and not enough spacing on the floor made it hard on Yao.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    So when he doesn't improve on something, its all JVG's fault... but when he does improve on something (strength, stamina, ability to avoid cheap fouls, low post dominance, etc.), its all because of Yao's work ethic?

    Yea... there's no double standard here.
     
  6. Zacatecas

    Zacatecas Member

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    This thread is not about the status quo. I haven't the slightest clue about fantasy sports!

    Assits are supposed to generate easier shots and points. Therefore, I am not advocating that Yao give up a dunk for a 3 point shot. That would be illogical and insane!! Not to mention Idiotic. As it it right now, Yao's 25 points a game come from the free throw line and about 10 feet of the basket. But his turnover do come from him dribbling, not being able to get out of double teams, offensive fouls when he doesn't know where to go when he has the basket ball, etc. Effective passing would alieveiate this problem. Does that translate into assists, when he could be hitting wide open guys, more than likely yes!

    As mentioned before by one of you guys, Yao average 2.3 assist per 40 minutes as a rookie. Last year he did the same. There was no improvement there. How is it that he can Improve almost every aspect of his game (I don't mean to put rebounds here), yet the assists linger way behind. Assists = alertness and courtvision (which people say he has). Rebounds = size + athleticism "Yao has little athletisism NBA standard, I mean" So 9 rebounds is pretty much what he'll be getting his entire career.

    In my opinion his assists have room for growth.
     
  7. Zacatecas

    Zacatecas Member

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    Let me correct myself.

    His passing has room for growth. If assits result out of that, that is gravy!!!
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    Often the most effective pass doesn't result in an assist, nothing to do with speed, Nba guys are quick, even the Suns often use multiple passes before open shots present themselves.

    Also, many of Yao's kickouts end up back to him in the post by design.

    Yao's high dribble is a problem and is a major source of TO, but that isn't really passing related.
     
  9. munco

    munco Member

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    Where's the "None of the Above" choice?
     
  10. Chronz

    Chronz Member

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    Change in mindset, JVG drilled it in his head to score. Adelman will reduce his scoring but increase his playmaking. If Yao really grows into a Shaq type dominant force he will combine both.

    Anyone blaming the lack of assists on teammates are kidding themselves. Thats a copout if Ive ever heard one, I cant tell you how many times I would scream at the TV whenever Yao passed out of a double team but end up overthrowing the pass. Its not a GOOD pass if your teammate has to jump up to catch it. Seems like the only good passes he makes come from give aways to Luther. Hes not a bad passer but he could stand to improve.
     
  11. Chronz

    Chronz Member

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    If he turned it over it shouldve been a pass. Basketball IQ/Decision making and passing go hand in hand.

    But the biggest result of his turnovers I think come on fouls and violations, those dont really have to do with passing.

    To me the greatest barometer of passing is assist ratio and Yaos has fallen drastically now that hes forced into a scorer.
     
  12. blathersby

    blathersby Contributing Member

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    I'd like to add that he constantly holds the ball low and gets it stripped from him. There's another reason he's not a passing machine.
     
  13. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    For a C, Yao is a good passer but "tremendous" is a bit much. Bill Walton was a tremendous back to the basket passer and Yao is nowhere near what Bill Walton used to be. I agree JVG's offense had something to do with Yao's lack of assists but mainly because JVG's sole focus was changing Yao's mentality away from being deferential to being unstoppable. Still, JVG's offensive schemes didn't have enough motion to utilize Yao's passing skills enough for my tastes. If we get better players, Yao's assists will go up and his scoring will go down under Adelman.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    It shows that the premise that Yao's passing being "ruined" is an absolute myth. I'm not sure why you operate under the impression that a 7-6 310 pound, slow moving post player has a lot ceiling to improve his passing, but I digress.....

    What does it say about his back to the basket game, sishir? How has that done the last few seasons?
     
  15. rocket_zoom

    rocket_zoom Member

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    Oh my gosh! krnxsnoopy is a JVG clone!

    That's exactly why JVG's offense is below average and predictable ... because it's 1 dimensional.

    The idea is to play Yao to his current strength, which is the low post, but also to add variation here and there to Yao's game so that he is less predictable.

    In fact, Adelman's job is to turn the entire Houston offense from a predictable 1 dimensional offense to an offense that is less predictable so Houston can score easier baskets.

    Rocket Zoom
     
  16. pasox2

    pasox2 Contributing Member
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    They guy Yao idolizes is Arvydas Sabonis, who was 7'3", 300 lbs. Tremendous interior passer, great touch, backboard-shattering dunker. Ran the floor well in his early years. Great shot blocker.

    Sabonis was coached later in the NBA by Rick Adelman. He should have some idea how to get more of that for Yao.

    It's not a question of one extreme vs another. That's just how you guys think.
    The game has a fluid movement of opportunities. Yao has skills to move from the free-throw line to the basket, and be effective as a facilitator or a finisher.
     
  17. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Using Yao's rookie assist number to judge his passing ability is as ridiculous as using his rookie ppg stat to judge his scoring ability. The fact is, he was not consistently good at either passing or scoring his first year. But he showed flashes of brilliance in both.

    He has been a great low post scorer for about 1.5 years. It took him several years to develop the low post game by playing exclusively in the low post. His passing was never given a chance to develop.

    I don't get why every time when it comes to Yao's passing, high post game, or face up midrange game, it's all about JVG. The JVG haters would come out and say how the coach ruined his game, and the JVG apologists jumped up and say how mindless it is to ask Yao to do anything but be a scoring machine in the low post. They seem to think that if a 7'6 guy ever does anything outside the low post other than setting picks, he is wasting his size. I think that's the kind of close-mindedness that got JVG fired.

    JVG should get the credit for developing Yao's low post game. The strategy was correct. Yao's first priority should be there. The JVG haters never want to admit that.

    Now that Yao has the low post game, why is it a bad thing to try to add more weapons to Yao's game? I don't see the JVG apologists have ever acknowledged the possibility that a high post game might actually open up his low post game, making him more dominant.

    Some people presume that "dominant" means Shaq-dominant, or Hakeem-dominant. But Yao will never be that type of player because he lacks the physical abilities those centers have. But Yao also possesses some abilities those guys don't have. Why do you want to lock him up in a presumed mode of dominance?

    I don't know if a high post game will work for Yao. But if Adelman tries it and Yao averages more than 22 ppg and 3 apg, I'll be very happy. But if his scoring dips under 20, that is probably not worth it.
     
  18. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    Besides blaming JVG & Yao's vision, I would say it's all the above.

    But that's not an option on the poll.

    The problem I see is Yao made great passes inside usually to an open Chuck Hayes, I love Chuck's effort, but he's not too good at making simple layups. Sometimes I see Luther Head get a fat screen from Yao and go to the hole, but he can't consistently finish either.

    Rick Adelman is definitely gonna use Yao's passing ability. Just recall the Kings under Adelman, it will be a better flow offensive game for the Rockets.
     
  19. BEXCELANT

    BEXCELANT Member

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    No I respectfully disagree. Too much standing around in the Gundy system. Not enough movement and cutters. You can't do that in the NBA.
     
  20. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    Many people have made some excellent points here. Well done and thank you for a wonderful discussion. I think this is the kind of discussion we all expect from CF and GARM posters.

    On my part, I think that developing Yao's passing / assist making is a way of giving him options. Options he has depending on the type of opponents he faces. If he faces opponents that love to double team him and triple team him, then his passing ability is an extremely valuable asset to have against that type of opponent. If he faces an opponent that single covers him, then of course he must have an extremely effective low post game. That is my take... that he has the options, flexibility and the adaptibility against various types of opponents.
     

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