Who cares about who is the best center? Let Howard have it and enjoy the fact that Yao dominates the "best center'' every time they meet.
Best, adjective --of the most excellent sort; surpassing all others 1. Dwight is the best centre in NBA. 2. Yao beat the "best" centre consistently and convincingly most of the time they met. By definition, no. 1 simply cannot be established. Case closed.
OK. So this argument has been beaten to death. But I thought I might be able to add something marginally novel. Instead of just saying that Dwight plays in the East, and the East is a weaker conference, lets just look at the centers in the East and the West (whom Dwight and Yao are primarily matched up against). Per Hollinger's PER (pun intended) the top 10 centers this year are: Code: RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA 1 Dwight Howard, ORL 76 35.9 .605 6.5 14.0 23.0 13.9 29.4 21.9 25.80 619.6 20.7 2 Tim Duncan, SAS 72 33.8 .550 15.0 9.2 25.9 9.6 27.4 18.6 24.61 509.2 17.0 3 Al Jefferson, MIN 50 36.7 .532 6.3 7.3 26.2 10.6 24.9 17.5 23.18 344.8 11.5 4 Yao Ming, HOU 74 33.6 .618 8.5 14.7 23.5 9.7 24.2 17.2 22.71 449.9 15.0 5 Shaquille O'Neal, PHO 71 30.4 .628 9.4 12.3 21.7 10.0 22.6 16.6 22.59 385.7 12.9 6 Pau Gasol, LAL 77 37.1 .619 17.0 9.4 19.3 9.9 19.0 14.5 22.31 474.3 15.8 7 Andrew Bynum, LAL 46 29.1 .596 9.8 11.2 18.6 10.9 20.7 15.9 20.03 188.4 6.3 8 Andris Biedrins, GSW 58 30.1 .588 13.9 12.6 16.0 13.3 27.8 20.6 19.79 239.7 8.0 9 Nene, DEN 74 32.6 .650 9.6 13.2 16.3 8.7 18.7 13.9 18.93 299.8 10.0 10 Marcus Camby, LAC 58 31.5 .561 15.4 12.0 14.7 9.4 32.9 20.8 18.80 223.7 7.5 As you can see, no Eastern Conference center (other than Dwight) makes the top 10. So while Dwight is matching up against decent players like Ilgauskas, Okafor, and Horford, Yao is banging with studs like Ducan, Shaq, Bynum, Jefferson, Gasol. So while Dwight's stats (even adjusted for minutes played) are still better than Yao's, the difference in competition must be acknowledged.
Yao has a better chance of getting better at rebounding and blocks than Dwight has of becoming as offensively a threat as Yao is. Yao just has to be managed better and get tougher, while yet still learning to flop a little bit. Yao has to learn how to act more instead of complain, especially against great actors like in Utah.
Do you think Jefferson and Gasol are better individual defenders than Okafor and Horford, or that they're more likely to slow down the other player because of their activity on offense?
Here's a question. It's a general opinion that Yao is "soft". If that is so, what does that make Howard when he's clearly Yao's little jailhouse biatch...
Well, I guess PER primary shows offensive ability (but it does include blocks and steals) so perhaps the only conclusion that can be drawn from PER alone is that Yao has to guard tougher centers. This could wear him out on the defensive end, or just generally frustrate him (e.g., when he has to guard Jefferson or Boozer, and Shaq will where on a man too). These two factors could, in turn, hinder his offense or get him in foul trouble. Looking defensively, I think most would agree that Duncan is a great post defender, Shaq is pretty good just because of his size (hard to backdown), and Bynum is long and athletic and pretty heavy too. Okafor (height) and Horford (weight) would be easier for Yao when he is on offense compared to these three.
I think there's a tendency to overrate the impact of switching conferences. There is still a pretty large overlap in schedule. More significant is just being on a different team, with different teammates, and a different system. If Yao took Dwight's place in Orlando, how is he used differently? Does Orlando slow down its offense, and play more inside-out to get its threes, or do they more or less keep their current scheme? If you do want to predict if Yao would have an easier or harder time against Eastern conference foes (and the same with Dwight), neglecting a change of team, one thing you could look at is the current splits. Yao Ming Conf G FG% FT% MP PTS TRB AST Eastern 28 .565 .849 32.0 19.3 9.8 1.6 Western 47 .538 .872 34.6 19.8 10.0 1.9 Dwight Howard Conf G FG% FT% MP PTS TRB AST Eastern 48 .600 .62 36.1 21.8 14 1.6 Western 28 .534 .558 35.7 19.4 13.8 1.1 Both players shoot a higher percentage from the field against the East, and per-minute their numbers look a bit better as well. Is it because of lighter competition in the East at the center position, or perhaps a difference in interior defensive strength between the conferences? I'm not sure.
How about this theory? Yao is better at one-on-one matchups. DH is better at beating double teams. When the two play, most likely it's one-on-one, so Yao dominates. When they play everyone else, they are usually double-teamed, so DH gets better numbers.
Sure. Also, depending on the score, one made free throw could maybe be enough. On a final possession, where only 2 points is needed, its typically difficult to enter the ball into a post player. As Rockets fans, we know this story all to well. That's why teams will usually run a play for their PG or wing at the end of the game. Maybe a pick and roll or something. So to assess who'd you want on the floor at the end of the game, you'd have to compare their strengths/weaknesses on the most common plays you'd run. Yao is a more skilled post up player, he has that turnaround jumper, and if he's fouled he's very reliable. Dwight is probably better in a pick and roll, being more adept at catching and finishing in traffic, and he's also better on finishing after an offensive rebound. Which of those attributes do you prefer more in your center on a game's final possession?
It's better to look at what happens in real games than making theoretical assumptions. According to 82games.com, Yao's "clutch" points are 28.9. Howard's is 20.6, almost identical to Artest's
Also would depend who they're matched up against. If the game is on the line and Howard is against Yao, then obviously you probably sub Howard out of the game cuz he'll just be abused anyways...
What that tells me is that the Rockets rely on Yao to score points at the end of close games more than Orlando does with Howard. Does that mean Yao will help you win at the end of a close game more? Not necessarily. There are things to consider, individually, such as scoring efficiency and offensive rebounding. Consider also that even though Yao scores at a higher rate, the Rockets have outscored the opponent in clutch minutes with Yao on the floor 21 times, while the opponent outscored the Rockets 16 times (hence, the 21-16 "W-L" record in the clutch). For Howard, it's 22-12. So, it appears that the Magic have been more effective as a team, even though he's scoring less frequently. Why would that be? Perhaps because they have other, more reliable options they can go to. Surely, who each player shares the floor with will impact their scoring rate.
Howard is so overrated from playing in the rupaul conference of the league. Only reason he gets as many props as he does is because he's black and yao is not.
http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.players/index.html From the GM survey before this season, 15 out of 27 responders said Dwight Howard was the best center in the league. 7 chose Yao. Do you think 15 of those GMs answered that way simply because Dwight is black and Yao is Chinese?
There is a difference between being a great basketball player and being a great athlete. Dwight Howard is a great athlete, especially for his size. Yao Ming, who is not a great athlete, is still very agile for his size AND he is a great basketball player, because he can shoot, post up, pass and play 1-on-1 post defense. Dwight Howard is great at what he does, which is rebound (although his #'s are somewhat inflated here, because there are no other rebounders on the team, where as Yao has great rebounders around him at many positions) block shots, and run the floor. Yao is still a good rebounder and a decent shotblocker, but along with that, he has great footwork, can post up, pass out of a double team, can hit a 20 ft jump shot, is an 86 % free throw shooter and is a very effective post defender. Dwight Howard plays somewhat like David Robinson, but with less offensive skill. Their bodies were both built strong like superhereos, they could run in a straight line faster than some guards, they could both jump out of the gym, and they could both rebound with the best of them. However, neither one of them really had a great post up game. Even David Robinson relied on his jumper, putbacks/dunks/alley hoops around the basket and foul shots for most of his points, but he atleast had a little bit of a raw post up game. He didn't look nearly as good as Dream, Shaq, Barkley, Malone or Ewing in the post, but he was still better than most big men down there. You may say, "Well, he won a scoring title, 2 DPOY awards, and an MVP without a post up game." and you would be right about that, but David Robinson was exposed many times in the playoffs because of his lack of a post up game. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Hakeem Olajuwon all dominated Robinson before he got Tim Duncan. I would say that was the main reason why Robinson was always criticized as a leader of a team, because he could be contained pretty easily in a 5 or 7 game series. Dream showed us that, by outplaying him on both sides of the court. In the playoffs, it has already happened to Howard twice to the Pistons. He looked like a beast vs. the Raptors who used soft big men against him like Rasho, Bargnani, and Bosh. But when the played Detroit, Maxiell, McDyess, and Rasheed all had their way with Dwight. They just simply boxed him out, werent intimidated by his size and dared him to try to beat them in a half court game, and he failed miserably. Dwight's offensive game is similar, except that, he has a very minimal post game, which he can really only use on much smaller opponents, and he does not have a jumper he can rely on. If you watched him yesterday, he looked confused on offense. When he faces a bigger player, such as Yao, he will struggle offensively, because he relies so much on his athleticism, size, and strength. If he was still only 18-20 years old, it this would not be an issue, but he is in his 5th year already, and he hasn't made big enough strides offensively, which is why many people worry about Dwight. If he hasn't developed a post game by now, when will he? Now defensively, there is a difference between being a good shot blocker and being a great defender. Most great defensive centers are also great shot blockers (Olajuwon, Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace, Mark Eaton, O'Neal, Robinson, Ewing, Parish, Russell, Wilt). Here are some good shotblockers who were probably average defenders at best: Marcus Camby, Keon Clark, Chris Anderson(Birdman), Ronny Turiaf, Josh Smith, Theo Ratliff...etc. Do you see what I mean?? Those guys I just listed could jump very high, and block 2-3 shots per game as a help defender, but they were horrible man-to-man defenders, especially in the post. Guys like KG, Duncan, and Yao aren't great shotblockers, but they are all good 1-on-1 post defenders. Of course, Yao has some catching up to do if he wants to be at KG and Duncan's level, but Dwight has much more to catch up in that area. He is a great shotblocker like Camby, but he isn't a great 1-on-1 defender. As far as rebounding goes, Howard is a great rebounder, no doubt about that. But, I would still say that his #'s are inflated, because there is simply nobody else on that team is even a decent rebounder and they also play at a much faster pace than the Rockets and shoot many more perimeter shots, which equals more missed shots to be rebounded. Also, Dwight doesn't get the ball in the post nearly as much as Yao, so he can focus on boxing out and going after the ball. Yao has to get position, hope and pray that his guards will get him the ball, and then has to score or pass out of a double or triple team once he gets the ball. Its hard to average 12-15 rebounds when you play like that. But I would still give the edge to Howard, simply because he can jump much higher than Yao and is still tough to box out. If you want to entertainment, dunks, phenomenal stats, and potential, then Dwight Howard is the guy you will want on your team. If you want a player who can draw a double team, give you good, efficient #'s night in and night out, who also uses skills instead of pure athleticism, and can be effective late in the game and in the playoffs, and who is a better 1-on-1 defender, then Yao is the guy you will want on your team. I would say Yao is the better basketball player, while Dwight is a great athlete... This should end the discussion right here!
