Maybe more like 67%. I didn't include the full 24 seconds of the shot clock on the possessions. From the box score, the Rockets played about 87 offensive possessions, and that means Yao may have been on the floor for 72 possessions. Represented in the clips are 48 possessions, I believe. So, something like 48/72 (or 67%) of possessions we ran plays in which Yao was somehow involved (or could have been involved). Now, in some of the clips in the compilation Yao didn't get the ball and that's alright -- we still got a quality shot. On other possessions, the play started with Yao setting a screen and it never developed to where he could get the ball at the basket. I'm not sure why the Rockets had Yao setting so many screens at the beginning of the possessions instead of posting up. Maybe they were purposely trying to conserve him for the 4th quarter? In the 4th quarter, there were maybe 4 possessions in a row where they were trying to post Yao on the left block, and they achieved some success with it (drawing fouls, getting kick outs for Battier/Scola jumpers).
^^i will take your word for it. so let's say it's 67%, or about 2/3 of our possessions. don't think we had too many fast breaks last night. so is it fair to say that, out of the 24 possessions or 1/3 of the total possessions when yao was on the floor, there were about 20 (24 minus the fast breaks) plays when we didn't involve yao AT ALL? in other words, in about 20 possessions, yao merely ran up and down the court? you've obviously spent more time than i have to look at this game. i just wanna make sure i've got the right idea.
Some of the possessions might have been early offense shots (remember, the Rockets wants to explore early offense opportunities, and then get Yao involved later in the shot clock if it isn't there). And some of them might have just ended prematurely due to a turnover. I think the clips I have in the compilation represent the vast majority of the possessions where the play developed to the point Yao could have had an opportunity to score. Oh, and there were some possessions where the Rockets ran ISO post ups for Scola and Artest, with Yao on the weakside. I didn't include those if Yao never got himself in position to potentially receive the ball or get the offensive board.
did you kinda dodged my question? in your opinion, was yao under-used in the game or not? we say run the offense through yao, why there were quite some possessions yao didn't even touch the ball? and, if that is indeed an issue, is it yao's fault or his teammates'? how do we solve that?
First off, I want to say great job durvasa! You made very objective comments and had the clips to back them up as usual. The thing I notice and just frm playing ball in general is that some things aren't what they seem. After most games, especially losses, people are whining and crying about yao not shooting or getting touches. That's why I've said before, playing with yao isn't as easy as people think. Since he has limited stamina, teams feel the need to use him while he's out there. Doing this really limits what a team can do offensively. In a 48 minute game and yao playing 33, he's only effective for about 25-28 mins. Now, I will never say Yao isn't a productive player, he's just a guy that really slow up anything offensively you want to do. Those high screens are to help yao get into easier position which is cool, but those sets are also slow developing, shot clock eating options. Shaq,dream,ewing,robinson or even Howard never needs those screens to get position. So while these plays sets are developing and chewing the clock also. When yao gets it and still hesitates, it really puts a bind on the offense. At some point, something has to give. Either Yao comes back with confidence in that mid range shot that's will open the offense, Adelman is fired or yao is traded. I can listen to everyone talking about another pg like williams or paul, but has anyone noticed how often those guys have the ball in their hands? Does anyone with simple logic think yao will be effective with a pg that has the ball 80% of the time like those two? Also, look at when those guys get assist. Paul gets 2-3 easy ass to chandler off alley's and how many does williams get of drive and kicks to boozer and okur? I don't think yao is good enough or its good basketball to try to get yao the ball all the time. So one minute people want motion, the next minute they want van gundy back.
there was a stretch in the early 4th where Yao just set picks for the most part...its usually when Yao sits and they kept him in, for a few mins he didnt really post up, i think they figured since Yao is going to stay in they should cut back on posting him so he doesn't tire himself out for a later run.
Where did you ask that question? Like I said in the first post, there were definitely possessions where his teammates neglected to get him the ball. So, yeah, he was under-used. It's Yao's fault and his teammate's fault if he's not getting the ball enough. There were certainly a number of plays where Yao could have been more assertive in carving a space for himself in the low blocks to get the ball. On other possessions, the Lakers did a good job in contesting him early for position and forcing him to come out and set a screen instead. At the same, there were plays where Yao managed to get in position, but his teammates either didn't see him, went elsewhere, or made their move before Yao could call for the ball. I don't think there's a simple answer for how to solve it. I think its important that the offense does not stagnate. We shouldn't get caught struggling to feed the ball to Yao on the strong side, instead of moving it from side to side and trying to get Yao the ball on the move. Also, after the game everyone is talking about Yao's lack of touches in the low post as the major problem. Was it? How about the 18 turnovers? How about the fact we missed 8 of our 22 free throws? What about our PGs going 1-11 from the field? I think there are a lot of things that need to be solved.
Looked to me like Yao was Brad Miller'ed in the 3rd and parts of the 4th. High screens and jumpshots a'plenty. I actually dont think its an insult on Yao for him to shoot deeper jumpers. Especially when he's somewhat capable. Still, sometimes it really is about setting a tone establishing big man whether its predictable or not. No need to outsmart yourself there, let Yao try to pound them
Yeah, I was wondering why the Rockets used him that way so much in the second half. Like I said above, I think part of the reasoning there was to save his stamina for the 4th quarter. Sure enough, in the 4th they posted him up on the left low block 4 possessions in a row. But by that time, there was too much of a gap in the score, and the Rockets weren't able to get stops on the other end.
good answers right there. yao is being under-used. i agree. check. not a simple issue to solve. check. offense should not get stagnant. check. they should move the ball and try get the ball to yao on the ove. check. where is the solution? how to execute the solution(s)? still a mi,,ion dollar question for the team to answer - in less than 2 weeks.
you solve it by toughening Yao up, that's it. Maybe by adding one dead-eye shooter, but the shooter wont matter as long as Yao is prone to losing the ball. On #11, where Durvasa pointsa out scola didn't see or missed Yao, i think scola didnt think it was a good option for two reasons: 1. the clock was at about 7 2. Kobe was on Yao's right side, waiting to pounce on Yao after entry pass It's bad enough that getting Yao the ball is a problem, even worse is the fact that once u get it in it may come right back out because Yao cant always get the shot off. I think the only reason that ball should come back out is if Yao sees someone open, otherwise Yao should go to work. Scola isn't going to pass it to Yao with 7 sec on the clock knowing there's a 50% chance Yao is going to have to pass it back out and run out the clock. He's also not going to pass it knowing Kobe is going after Yao and might strip it. Yao needs to not only hold on to the ball, but learn to be physical, show some elbows, push guys around. If you're late int he second qrtr with no fouls, be aggressive and gives guys a push or knock them down, a foul wont hurt in that situation. Or on a way to a blowout, etc. Of course don't be reckless, just show them you're not taking anymore crap. Once he does this for a few games his rep wil change, and defenders won't gamble as much, even a competitive guy like Kobe doesn't want his tooth to be knocked out. Once Yao works out those two things teams won't collapse on him as much, opening up his game and as a result, creating open looks for others. He can start off by losing some weight down low and gaining some up top. I know the team says they wanted Yao to have a strong base, but it's making him bottom heavy and less fluid. You disrupt his base and his upper body loses control. I think they're overdoing it, big guys like shaq or deke have never been that unbalanced. muresan and bradley where more like Yao as far as stature, but they were TOO skinny, Yao needs to find a balance between his current size and Bradley/Muresan. If you look at his older clips, he looks more fluid, and like an oversized small forward sometimes, now he just looks like an oversized, stiff center.
^^i like the way you read scola's mind as if it's a fact. 7 seconds is quite some time left for an offensive play. and this yao losing balance and his butterfinger problem are overstated in my mind. the truth is, yao is being under-used; and outside of yao, we don't really have another player who kills the defense of the other team since we lost a healthy mcgrady. so while yao should share part of the blame, the bigger question is how to find a way to NOT under-utilize him - rather than seeking alternatives. having other rockets shoot the ball more is not the answer. even in scola's case, though he's been amazing and consistent throughout the year, w/o yao being doubled he's had difficulties to score. i hope they can figure out something, in 2 weeks of time before the playoffs start. i believe as good as adelman is on offensive sets, he must have something in his mind. the thing is he has to enforce a little bit, 'cause now is not the best time for his players to "take time and learn" or to "read and react". no. they need the coaching staff to tell them what and when and how to do it on the court; in other words, more play calling. that imo will at least solve part of the problem of inability to execute.
RV6, through all your Battier loving, that was a pretty good post above. IBM, I know you're a rockets fan and also a yao fan, but sometimes I don't know why you ride the same tired topic in the ground. Let me paint a couple of pics for you. Rox get the rebound, kicks it to brooks on a hard push. Nothing happens, but now they have to wait on this set for yao. Yao is high post or opposite of the ball and they run the little screen. Yao comes across and gets the ball. Wait, looks around, wait, dribble, pass out. After all this, how much time do you think is left on the shot clock? Unlike a guy like shaq that is playing well in a fast paced offense, he lags behind the offense, but when he comes into the picture, he establishes position quickly and makes a decision quick also. If the rockets played at a fastefr pace, would or could yao play and be as effective? Its hard to play with a guy like yao at times. If he's not scoring on offense, he doesn't have as big of a impact. So anyway you spin it, people are going to say he's under used.
that's why i feel this "let ab and the guards rush it to see if there's something we can exploit first and let yao trailing" stuff will not work. ab is not a.i. of old, nor is he anywhere near parker's level. he has speed alright, but he doesn't use it well and to his advantage a lot of times. minus the fast breaks, which we as a team are not very good at, how many times have you seen we find something on offense before yao gets there? but no, adelman has other ideas. don't you see yao is inbounding the ball now? imo, with the current makeup of the team, the best way for us to play is actually van gundy brand of bball, with a few wrinkles. in the playoffs, the pace slows down significantly anyway. post up yao, post up scola, post up artest, wherever we see a mismatch; and then kick it out for an open 3. this is the best offense we can play right now. and i am sure amongst yao, scola and artest, we can find at least one mismatch on each and every play.
I said "i think" scola thought that, never said it was a fact, but if we notice Yao takes too much time sometimes, Im sure they've noticed it. Perhaps Scola wasn't thinking of it then, but its safe to say the team is aware of it. 7 seconds is enough for A play, not for Yao to dribble some, make a move, realize he's stuck, then pass out to someone who may not even be open and has to make something happen THEN, when there will be like 3 seconds left, probably less. Yao's issues are not overstated, I think people are fooled by the fact that they dont happen as often as they use to, he's definitely improved, so it seems like it's no longer a problem since he made such an improvement, but a post player should rarely be losing the ball, so even though Yao does it a lot less, it's still too much for a strong post player. I've seen him lose rebounds too many times as well, where they're literally in his hand and someone takes them away. Against LA he did a better job of securing them, but it seems like he always regresses back a bit, then improves, then regresses a bit, etc. I agree he's underused, no doubt, but he's underused because his teammates don't believe he's going to get it done in certain situations. I know Yao is nowhere near Dream's skill level, but that's basically the role we want him to be in. I dont think any one of Dream's teammates ever worried when they gave him the ball, not even .00001% of the time, I cant say the same for Yao's teammates. Even it they only worry a quarter of the time , that's still too much for a guy you want to give the ball to every time. His teammates have to believe whenever Yao gets the ball it's either coming back out for an open look or he's going to get his shot off. They should only expect a turnover if a defender makes an extraordinary defensive play, and not because of a bump, quick strip, or because they moved Yao out of the way like if he weighed 10 lbs (which even a toothpick like Gasol does). I cant see any way around this, even if you use Yao a different way he's always going to be holding the ball at some point, and that's always an invitiation for a defender to come take a jab at it, so he needs to be more physical and defensive. Boston played the best and most efficient D i've seen then played on Yao earlier this season, they literally waited until he took his first or second step into his move, and then the defender bumped him, it worked over half the time, screwed up Yao's rythm, the defender didn't even have to jump so that dramatically decreased the chance he'd foul Yao, and Yao kept missing. Didn't even have to double team or fight him for position. I just remember thinking, of course, who knows how to defend Yao better than Tom Thibodeau, he knows his exact weaknesses..
"he's underused because his teammates don't believe he's going to get it done in certain situation." that may be the case. but they, at this point of the season, just have to believe. they have to realize to put the ball in yao's hands is better than they trusting themselves. many games have proven this. adelman also needs to realize yao is the best we've got and force the issue. how yao compares to akeem is irrelevant here. a yao-centric half court offense gives us the best chance to succeed in the playoffs this year, period. so under-use him is not the answer.
Well I defended Battier because i didnt agree he was washed up and because the team was still winning despite his poor shooting, but I do understand the importance of hitting that shot when you're on Yao's side, i just believed Shane would get back his shot before the problem was big enough to lose games. I still say Kobe goes after Yao regardless of whos there though. We could have Larry Bird making the entry pass and Kobe would still go for the strip, he just salivates Looking at Yao.. There was even a clip on this vid early on, within the first 10 clips, where all 5 lakers literally left their man and just kept inching closer and closer to Yao, it's their game plan to disrupt him, crowd him, etc. They know taking Yao out loses games for Houston, and its not difficult to take him out of it if you know his weaknesses.
The thing is Yao's effectiveness isn't always based on the Rockets deciding on trusting him or not, it's based on the defense. If the defense shows the ability to disrupt Yao, then thats going to make even the most trusting teammate question Yao's ability. The thing is, teams play Yao differently from game to game, so sometimes the defense favors Yao, so when he gets touches those games the system works for him, he does well, others feed off of him, and all the announcers and fans are saying "see, just get him the ball and everything else falls in place". But guess what? Next game another team uses a different approach that's not in Yao's favor, he doesnt get the ball and fans are pissed because he doesnt and they blame his teammates for not getting him the ball, but why arent they? Because they realize this defense doesnt favor him. If they force it in to him, he messes up, and the Yao bashing stars. Next game he gets a favorable defense, he does well, and again, "see, just get him the ball, he must have had a bad night last time". This keeps happening and it seems logical to believe Yao's being inconsistent and he just needs to be more consistent right? Duh! Problem is, Yao doesn't control how consistent he is, the defense does. He can have the same game plan every game, make the same moves, etc., but he'll still be inconsistent because the defense changes all the time. Once Yao is able to establish himself against every defense, then they'll pass him the ball every single time, he'll become consistent, and we'll be happy. Kobe gets played different all the time also, sometimes he's crowded, other times he's played one on one, yet he always scores or creates, he's consistently involved. Imagine if crowding him took him completely out of his game? How inconsistent would he be, and how much would he underachieve?
