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Yao needs to concentrate on Defense and Rebounding

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. FoOLiSh_AzN

    FoOLiSh_AzN Member

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    lets not worry too much...its the beginning of the season one lost and you fools are jumping off the bandwagon already... 3 of our starters played BADLY but we still only lost by 4 points. already had a good game offensively but Defensively he was WORSE than yao, mcgrady right now CANNOT GUARD ANYONE. allen just ate him up in the 4th quarter, thats why we need battier back. but its ok mcgrady will get back in shape as the season goes along.

    Ps. the celtics centers had a lot of easy buckets and dunks because yao had to come over to help out with guards because our perimeter defense again was horrible again. (aka whoever mcgradys guards)
     
  2. FoOLiSh_AzN

    FoOLiSh_AzN Member

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    ^^^i meant McGrady* had a good offense game but defensively he was worse than Yao.
     
  3. mjhaver5

    mjhaver5 Member

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    I agree that he needs to do a better rebounding job...but I don't think he can. First, UTAH is a hell of a rebounding team. And second, CELTICS is another hell of a rebounding team. With both Perkins and Garnett in the middle surrounded by the best rebounding pg, rondo, and another decent rebounder, pierce...its like CELtic's strong points...rebounding! So I think Yao can only block out one person, but he needs help from the PF position. Luis Scola did a poor job of rebounding along with Laundry. So don't put all the blame on Yao. Plus comparing Yao to Olajuwon is just not fair. While Olajuwon was a very physical all time best blocker...Yao is more of a finese player who is not going to be as physical as many other players. I think Yao needed more help....yet another reason why we NEEEEEDDDDDDDD mutombo back in the lineup. While Yao sat out for so long, WE KNOW that Mutombo would've came in and given up a couple of blocks and more rebounds!!!! you can't have a 7-6 guy substituted by a 6-6 guy. It just doesnt make sense, Hayes, Scola, and Laundry were getting completely outrebounded. Somebody please tell Daryl Morey that he needs to sign Mutombo ASAP! And then worry about signed or trading for a 7 footer back up center. Going against the Lakers who have bynum, turiaf, gasol, and odom all in the front court, and our only player taller than 6-6 being Yao is not gonna be good at all. ESPECIALLY IF WE ARE HOPING TO LIMIT YAO'S MINUTES!!!!! SIGN MUTOMBO!!!!
     
  4. ThaBlackKnight

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    I agree that the Rockets as a TEAM, not just Yao needs to improve on rebounding. That starts with boxing out, especially considering we don't have explosive jumpers on our frontline (even Landry has lost some explosion.) Scola will hustle and scrap for rebounds, but he isn't great at just snatching rebounds out of the air or over somebody. Landry needs to play a little more physical, Hayes is similar to Scola, but he does a better job of boxing out, and Yao needs to get himself in position when the shot goes up. With Yao roaming the middle, he has a hard time getting back to his man at times for rebounds.

    Thats what happened last game. RA knew Scola couldn't guard KG one on one, so he had Yao going back and forth between Perkins and Garnett, but Perkins and Davis got a lot of rebounds because of that.

    If the rebounding continues to be an issue, then we need to get an athletic 6'10 to 7'ft player that has a knack for rebounding. This will hurt us in close games.

    When Battier comes back, he'll help with the boards because he usually crashes in from the outside and gets many deflections. Artest doesn't have great jumping ability so its hard for him to get boards over taller teammates or opponents. Tmac, when playing in a small line up is actually a great rebounder, but usually he is playing at the shooting guard which means his responsibility is to get back on D or run down the court to get an outlet.

    We can't just put all the blame on Yao. He can't box out 3 guys at once. He needs help too. Just because he is the only guy over 7' doesn't mean he should be the only guy rebounding. It falls on the entire team.


    As far as defense goes for the last game, I'd much rather let Kendrick Perkins beat meby shooting a lot of jumpers instead of letting KG get going down low. Thats not the shot that the Celtics wanted, but he happened to hit them that game. I think McGrady should have guarded Pierce in the 2nd half. With his knee still bothering him, a guy who runs all over the place like Allen is the worst type of player could guard. Pierce is not going to run as much, but he is more of a slow it down, iso or post up type of guard, similar to Tmac himself. I know Artest isn't great at chasing players around screens himself, but he would've done a better job contesting, simply because he is healthy. Once Battier comes back though, he'll be happy to chase the Hamiltons, Allens, and Martins around all game though.

    Just remember though, its better to make these mistakes now and learn from them, instead of making these mistakes in the playoffs, where it will cost us our season.
     
  5. getRED2008

    getRED2008 Member

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    dominant Offensive player got blocked by rim lmao. Yao is a bit better than average on offence, all about the match up. dominant? hell no! hes soft and cant even dunk, sure he can shot free throws but i doubt hes unstoppable 1 on 1, lets say pau gasol, kg, td, amare, dirk, and okur...i kno u would say many of em are not C, lol, who cares.
     
  6. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Member

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    And "dominant" offensive guards have occasionally airballed their FTs.

    Because averaging over 20 ppg while shooting over 50% from the field and hitting 85% of his 7-8 FTAs per game is only "a bit better than average."

    If Yao is only a bit above the norm, what is T-Mac? What is Artest? What is 90% of the NBA? Are they absolute crap on offense?

    Over the last few seasons he's been among the league leaders in dunks made.

    Then why don't other teams guard him 1 on 1?
     
  7. getRED2008

    getRED2008 Member

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    they do, just front him, easy, no need double anymore, lets w8&see
    btw double yao ming doesnt mean hes super, its just the best way to beat rocket since yao always make mistakes when get doubled.
     
  8. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Member

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    Except these teams that front him still double him a lot. Don't talk in defiance of practically every Rockets game played in the last few years.
     
  9. getRED2008

    getRED2008 Member

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    50% not impressive for a C and in playoff games even worse. how many good passes he wastes per game? over 20 points means nothin, even mike james can socre 20 points per game kek. dont be fooled by teh stats m8, yao rollin on the floor every single game i watched and he cant hold a damn ball from 1st yr til now. anyway yao is nothin when his fade away jump shot ****ed up and it always happen. Yao needs good passes to score while ron and tmac can make their own, which means Yao as a C have 2 be more efficient than others on offence, otherwise who would gief teh damn ball to the buttfinger man liek brown? Yao used to be efficient under JVG's noob system and u kno JVG limited others talent to help yao, he failed anyway. now with Adelman's offence system, yao is biggest liability no doubt, he cant pass,he cant hold the ball, he make mistakes often, he cant dribble, he cant def, he cant rebound, he cant dunk and he cant even make those mid-range shots as his rookie yrs! ye its the best C in the league rofl
     
  10. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    Thanks for knocking this dude back to Rookie Clutch Crew.

    Dont know how he got membership in the first place....
     
  11. ibm

    ibm Member

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    getred2008, one question for you.

    since you have a fashionable name of getred, you must have the aspiration of a championship for the rockets this year, yes?

    if we trade away yao ming (since he's just slightly above average and is playing the critical 5) and replace his with, say, perkins, do you still have the same aspiration?

    str8 face answer please, if you have one.
     
  12. jkckwong

    jkckwong Member

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    Yao becomes soft once he is in "foul" trouble. He is too gentlemen-like and has built this image among refs. He should be mean, forceful and being 7'6" and over 300 lbs, he should be a stone wall in front of the basket. Just stand firm there in front of shorter players who want to blow by him. The worse is to take a blocking foul and be fouled out a few games. That would change the image of the refs.
    When he always acts too gentle, once he acts forceful, the refs will give him a foul. Its time that he should change his style of play in the regular games, to pave way for playoff this year.

    Also, I don't like his way of tipping rebounds to his teammates. If he could get the rebounds, just grab it with two hands and hold the ball up above his head. That would make sure he gets the ball. Tipping balls are surprises to his teammates and if stolen would lead to fast breaks by opponents, killing Rox momentum.

    I sincerely hope Yao can improve his game in these two areas to prepare for Rox's run in the playoffs.

    Just my humble opinion. Yao's weakness mentioned above is not a "just one game" observation. It has been repeatedly shown in past years. I am sure Yao is aware of that and has been doing hard to improve - but he has to do it harder.
     
  13. WhoMikeJames

    WhoMikeJames Member

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    Doing the exact same thing tonight... Yao hasn't learned.
     
  14. doggfrenzy2

    doggfrenzy2 Member

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    You should be the Houston GM cuz clearly you know better than Morey about Yao. Please get the GM job from Morey and trade Yao's useless a$$
     
  15. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I'm waiting for the people who didn't watch the game flame your statement and say that you hate Yao. Then I'm waiting for you to tell them that Yao got out rebounded by Sabonis and Jerome Kersey, then I'm waiting for them to tell you that Yao will out rebound both Sabonis and Jerome Kersey this year!
    :cool:
     
  16. getRED2008

    getRED2008 Member

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    well,u have2 admit that yao is overrated 4 sure accordin to his chinese background. yes i do believe ron can help yao and tmac this season but after 5 games i found out no team can win the championship with yao as startin C. hes way too soft,slow, tell u wut the only thing hes good at is teh free throw lmao. if u watched games, u would understand that his def and rebound skillz even worse than k.brown LOL.
     
  17. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Thanks for pointing out that offense doesn't mean everything. especially on this thread that isn't about offense.

    Excellent point that 99% of the people who saw Yao get outrebounded by Glen Davis and Robert Parish don't get!

    This reminds me when people were talking crap about Juwan Howard's 17points/game. I told these google happy suckers that doesn't translate to anything on the Rockets and overall he's not a starter.

    Mike James could score alot of points, you are right. but he didn't do anything else for this team.

    JVG's system was much simpler, but it also produced worse offensive results for the Rockets.

    I still believe he can become the best center in the league. but not by much. Best Centers in the league in the past have been:
    Shaq
    Duncan (yeah he's really a center though)
    Dream
    Robinson
    Ewing

    All these guys had both offense and defense.

    I'm not saying Yao will ever be Hakeem, I always say he should listen to what Hakeem says about being a Center, which means Defense and Rebounding are the most important, everything else is second.

    Yao could be like Shaq. He takes up so much space that its hard for people to score in the paint.
     
  18. dadesokan

    dadesokan Member

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    I really think this is a coaching Issue and I am really beginning to see why Alderman never won a championship even with all the talent he has had over the years. Last nights shot by roy draws a parallel when Horry Hit that winner for the lakers and ended Portlands opportunity to Win the championship that year. Alderman is just not a good defensive coach.

    Sadly enough, His player coach mentality is turning out to be more of an issue as well, because he is not calling out his Stars when he needs to. The great ones did it. Pop would sit Ginobli, Parker and Timmy back in the early years when they were fumbling around on the court or not concentrating on the defensive end, Jackson had a way of pulling out Kobe and MJ when he feel they were loosing focus on the court. He would sit them for a few minutes and get them to refocus and then they would take off. Alderman just watches until the final quarter, when it may to too late. This is just bad strategy.

    Lets face it, even with the bad game Yao had last night, He is still the best center in the league. Yao, up to 10 - 12 feet around the basket is money, and still shoots the highest percentage of center in a tough league, notice I said shoots not dunks. Yao will never be a dunking agressive type center like Wilt or Shaq, but he might go down in History as the best pure shooter to play that position. His stroke is smooth and you can see it when he shoots his free throws. He is still the best at making them on this team, even with Barry and Brooks who shoot it very well too. YAO can shoot for a big man. That is hard to find or teach. He can use his left and right hand, has an array of post moves, hook shots, Baseline spin moves, and can consistently hit from 10 - 12 feet. But here in lies the problem with his recent struggles. Why Yao Posts up, he is not patient enough. There was a time whenever Yao put the ball of the fall he turned it over because the help defenders where just waiting for that, he started catching, reading the defense and shooting. JVG made sure he addressed this issue, now Yao has reverted to that bad habit, hence he is turning into a turnover machine like his rookie years. He also needs to see where his players are on the floor, if he is doubled, SOMEONE should get a wide open layup or three. Dream mastered this as a player and made his team mates better. Yao seems to be unable to pass out of the double teams, and tries so hard to force the issue, leading to more turnovers. Also, when Yao is fronted, the PG always tries to force the ball and it just never works as the weak side defense always comes over to help, leading to yet another turnover. Thats why someone needs to drive to basket to create spacing, but the PG tends to force the issue, leading to more turnovers. I dont know why the coach has not addressed these issue yet.

    Yao loss of concentration on the defensive end is due to the stagnation of the Rockets play of late, both offensively and defensively.Defensively, JVG used to make Yao flash upfront when picks are being set by the player he was guarding to create disruption for the opposing offense, now every stands around and just watches. We are fast loosing our defensive Identity as team and Yao is suffering the most in this area. When he is not actively moving on defense, he seems to have his mind wander completely out of the game. JVG would call him out in his era, not Alderman. We cannot win a first round series let alone win a championship if we dont gain our defensive identity back, and it really starts with the Big Man.

    The Princeton offense that brought us the 22 straight wins seems to have vanished as well. We are not seeing the hard cuts, ball movement and motion offensive that we all came to appreciate so much last year. All we are seeing now is a lot of ISOs, players standing around and forcing bad shots. It was ok in the JVG era, because we played defense. No way Portland shoot 50+% like it did last night in the JVG era. This team is becoming lazy mentally and Alderman is not saying anything.

    Yao has problems right now, I agree, but the coach really needs to get in the face of his team, starting with his stars. Word to TMAC: Offensive is good TMAC, but take a look at the nuggets, had 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league last season, but again a superior defensive laker team, they got SWEPT. Defensive wins games, Offensive will come eventually. This team has to return to that mentality for every 48 mins they step on the court, not for 12 of 24 mins. The great teams play D for the whole game, that why they win championships. With the exception of Artest, every one has to play better D, but the coach has got the preach it this the record breaks!!!!!!
     
  19. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Bad analogy.

    Dude the Horry shot was a miracle shot where the ball was tapped out and Horry was in the right place at the right time.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L3FyJ7fag3Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L3FyJ7fag3Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Plus its Robert Horry, his blood is the same as Maxwell, Cassell, Mario Elie, a special blood that runs through hearts of heroes.

    The Roy shot was a wide open shot and a set play. even if its a far shot. Plus, there was a defensive breakdown by the player who was guarding Roy.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KYjHKxLBwMk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KYjHKxLBwMk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


    Rick Adelman - 2 NBA finals, 4 Western Conference Finals

    Tracy Mc Grady - ZERO
    Yao Ming - ZERO

    Yao and Tmac have had the best coaches the NBA could get:
    Doc Rivers - oh he won it last year
    JVG - took the Knicks to the finals
    Rudy T - greatest Rockets hero coach loyalest to city of billion houstonians ever

    JVG lost his job cause Yao couldn't grab a board against Boozer/Okur in the 4th quarter in Houston in the first round. that's it.
     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Pau Gasol got 15 rebounds tonight
    The Laker team out rebounded us by 14.

    hmmmm
     

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