The only thing that Howard is better than Yao is rebounding. When Yao faces other big players. He usually dominate them. Howard on the other hand disappeared at time. Idividual rebounding stats are deceiving...here's why. Take a look at Houston vs Orlando . People think when they see Howard is grabbing 15 to 20 rebounds must mean Orlando is averaging like 5+ more rebounds then any other teams in the league. All Howard is doing is taking/hogging rebounds away from his teammates.
Yao is a soft player and you cant change that. He is in the mid in his career (yes 5 more years and he is done) and he is not even close to being dominant on both ends of the court. Shaq on the earlyh 2000's pwnd the league with monster numbers and DOMINATION of the game. Plus we have mcgrady which is an automatically negative contribution to the team. Trade them both and rebuild properly.
I disagree...I think Howard is a significantly superior rebounder...just as Yao is a significantly superior post player on offense. That said, a single good defender like KG, Duncan, Yao, even Bynum or Gasol can severely limit Howard's offense...but no one defender can do the same to Yao...it takes gimmick defenses or constant double and triple teams...we've seen it time and time again that it speaks loud and clear.
Yao is a really good player. Yao is Yao. He can still get better. He is getting more confident with how he plays. He is getting more confident shooting outside 10 feet. I think it is unfair to expect him to be Shaq.
beyond all this argument v. howard, yao is a stud and he IS the best offensive big man in the game. what we have done to surround yao with great talent has put less pressure on him, and hopefully he can use this offseason to find other ways to impact the game when he's not scoring or when he's fronted. and hopefully he'll find away to decipher the fronting. the great ones never let a team(s) use one single defensive method to shut them down. maybe for a game. maybe for a series. but not consistently.
How does this thread only get 2 stars? I've seen some awesome stuff here. If our star could even sniff Howard's aggressiveness (save for his abysmal game 1 of the Finals), we would be contenders even with a $23 million hole in the roster and a point guard who runs around like a chicken
I'll tell you how. God forbid anyone questions what more Yao can do w/o some people reading it as: "don't attack Yao" critical remark. There is indeed some awesome stuff here: BlackKnight, durvasa, logicx, etc. It'll be interesting to see how/if people's opinions change should Orlando pull off the mightiest of upsets and beat the Lakers... where you know DH12 will probalby have a large role in such. Some other observations - commonalities I find btw DH12 and Yao worth noting, if anything, b/c it means some elements that we can control for. 1. DH12, much like Yao tends to be officiated worse on away games than home games. i.e more foul calls 2. DH12, much like Yao have both had tutelage from Patrick Ewing 3. DH12, much like Yao have been coached by a Van Gundy 4. DH12 has spin moves not appreciably faster than Yao's imho Food for thought. theSAGE
You missed the point of my argument about DH12. When you put a big, strong, long defender on DH12, it is pretty easy to defend him. Did you not see the type of post moves he was using? He looked confused, almost like he had never practiced a real post move before. He is a good rebounder, on both sides of the court which I agree he is better than Yao at. He will get points that way, but he will not be a reliable option to "go to" in the post. The Magic might be better off just penetrating and throwing up a shot as a pass to Howard. He would score much easier that way instead of trying to feed it to him expecting him to be Yao, Shaq or TD with the ball down low. As with any star player, you need depth to guard him as well. Perkins did a good job on DH12; the problem was he had nobody to back him up when he went out or got in foul trouble. Of course DH12 would dominate Scalabrine and Mikki Moore. With Yao, there is NO SINGLE PLAYER THAT CAN GUARD HIM 1-on-1 and contain him, maybe with the exception of Shaq. He has the footwork, the post moves, the jumper, a hook shot, a turnaround fadeaway, and most importantly unmatchable size. I'm telling yall Ilgauskus, Varajao and B. Wallace made Howard look MUCH better than he really is. Ilgauskus is long, but he's weak and terribly slow. Varajao isn't big, he isn't strong, or long: just simply a mismatch. Ben Wallace 3-5 years ago would've done a stellar job on Howard, but at 35 years old, he doesn't have the athleticism to guard Howard and he's already undersized as it is. Just a bad matchup. Then on top of that, Orlando's shooters were hitting their shots in that series so you couldn't double him. What good big man wouldn't dominate in that situation. Honestly, what did DH12 do besides outrun Ilguaskus to get to the front of the rim, over power and shoot over Varajao, and out run B. Wallace and shoot right over him as well, also he was able to get offensive rebounds over them. Lets not call him Shaq just yet. Shaq dominated the best of the best at the center position when he was playing. He was a 70-80 lbs. heavier than Howard, MUCH stronger than Howard, much more skilled down low than Howard and a much smarter player than Howard. Thats why he dominated no matter who you put on him. Unlike Shaq or Yao, there will be people just as big if not bigger, just as long and tall if not longer and taller, and just as athletic, if not more athletic than Dwight Howard in this league. That is why at some point, his lack of skill will come back to hurt him. Luckily for him KG was out during the Playoffs. Otherwise Boston probably wins in 5 maybe 6. Also luckily for him and the Lakers, Yao fractures his foot in the 2nd quarter of Game 3, and the Lakers barely escape a fiesty Rockets team. Otherwise, we would see a Yao vs. Dwight Finals and EVERYBODY would see Yao is the better center. Dwight Howard is a good player. He is a better shot blocker and rebounder than Yao. He is a better athlete than Yao. However, in a playoff/Finals game, I would prefer Yao on my team, simply because 1.) He can't be contained by 1 player not named Shaq 2.) He is a reliable post option and gets you a high % every time he shoots. 3.) He draws a double team/fronting defenses on him which opens up shots for the rest of the team 4.) He is a smarter player than DH12 Yao is ahead of DH12 offensively quite easily and that is more valuable in the playoffs in my opinion. Most NBA champions have had a dominant post up option. That is no coincidence.
I totally agree. Great post. If Yao was more durable like you said, there would be no question top 5. Health #1 concern.
I disagree, there have been numerous times where one fronting defender has completely eliminated Yao from the game. Pryzbilla and Uberto come to mind.
I second that. How many games / quarters has Yao been rendered completely useless on the offensive end by a much shorter defender? Heck, he's even been taken out of games by a fronting Jason 6' 6" Richardson and there are a lot of NBA players who are athletic and strong enough to establish a decent front. The fact is that Yao is a clumsy oaf when it comes to catching a basketball; he can't catch an entry pass thrown over a front defender reliably unlike many other athletic bigs in this league. If Yao does get the ball in the low post, however, he has more options than Howard.
+1 DH12 once again grab 15 rebounds vs faker, guess what, his team were -14 on rebounds. With yao, things like that will NEVER happen.
lol yeah pryzbilla. how did single coverage work out for portland game 1? yao had the most perfect offensive sequence of any player in the playoffs this year due to single coverage. that decision probably by nate lost them the series in basically 1 half of the first game of the playoffs... because they single covered Yao and he went to town. Howard had one overtime performance where he won Cleveland game for his team. every other win has been Orlando's shooters jumpshooting them back into games. Howard is a great individual defender with gaudy numbers but unlike Yao that does not translate for the team, unlike Houston or Boston w/garnett Orlando is not a great defensive team... huge swings where they're down 20 consistently and rely on hot shooting 3s is a hallmark of a team that cannot contain the other team as well as getting outrebounded as a team w/ your center putting up huge individual rebounding numbers the thing you can say about Howard is that you really really notice how much fun he's having in the playoffs. for me compared to Kobe who's been like a spoiled child, Wade who seems to have the weight of world on his shoulders and James who seemed indignant that he could actually lose, it's really noticeable the huge smile on Howard face and swagger in his step every game even when he was getting T'd up. Yao's comments make it seem like he himself was surprised and satisfied to take a few games from LA whereas Howard's made it clear nothing less than a 'chip would satisfy him
I guess you cant recall Okur shutting Yao down? Since when has fronting ever been called gimick? You either play behind,3/4 shade ,1/2 shade or full frontal, its nothing gimmick about that. Since you want to bring up long defenders taking howard out the game, what about when boris diaw used to take yao out the game? Or some other guy that had no business efecting the him defensively. I think yao and howard are different players. Yao is more effective with the ball and howard is more effective even when he doesn't get the ball. It is what it is, but every gm in the league would probably take howard after kobe and lebron.
All that needs said is that Yao should watch all of the many mistakes Dwight makes and not copy them; and to keep learning from an actual champion: Hakeem. Nobody will learn anything from a "kid." Everyone has luck, but that luck runs out if the player doesn't have the whole package of experience, effort, and loss under his belt.
Shaq played in an different era. Yao is pretty freakin dominant. He's so dominant get gets double teamed, fronted, and is a nightmare for the other team. Lighten up, even if Yao isn't howard, he's still the 2nd best big man in the game. That's not chump change.
