Scola has about 15 post moves. Does he have a good or just effective post game? Does he need to average 27 PPG to be good? How many players have "good" post games according to that standard?
Do we agree that this: "Player A is a more effective post player than Player B, but not as good." is a nonsensical statement?
How do you measure "GOOD Post game"? This is the problem with the argument. I measure by how many moves they have to score + ability to score when it counts + what he averages through the season. How do you measure someone's post game? Because he can dunk, power it in, get to the FT line, ignore his lack of 4th quarter Offensive involvement? Scola' post game is pretty and its effective enough for him to score 15pts a night.......
yao looked exactly how he should, coming of a career ending surgery and without having played pro basketball for over an year. we should get worried if he still looks like this, lets say all-star break....then I believe we will see t-mac saga all over again.
1. Agree completely. In fact, my observations of his running the court was he seemed faster than he did pre-injury, seemed like he ran faster and smoother. 2. Yup. I bet he has improved on his outside jumper (set shot) with this injury since he had so much time to shoot from a chair. 3. Again agree. Timing off. He will get that back once he remembers NBA speeds. 4. All of it.
He's still working on getting his footing back, no pun intended. Moreover, I doubt he will be the same "Yao" ever again. I am hopeful, however, that he will evolve into something new and something good for the team. As players age and evolve their game changes. Yao is no different. He has to get in game-shape before he can figure out what he can do well on the court. Give him time and hope that he doesn't get hurt.
All the people saying with certainty that Yao will never be a force again need to just relax. Everyone on the Rockets' staff has been saying for the past year and a half that they're going to be patient. They said it throughout training camp too. They're going to start him out slowly and up the minutes gradually during the season. To make sure they don't overdo it, they even announced in the press that there's a doctor mandated 24min cap during the regular season. Anyone who has ever played ball knows that taking more than a couple weeks off throws off your timing. Taking months off takes away your conditioning. Taking a year and a half off after an injury takes away your confidence. All of these things will have to be rebuilt. If you don't know whether your foot will hold up, psychologically, you're just going to be tentative. Plus, I'm sure Adelman just told him to not exert himself too much. The key is to just get comfortable out there. There's no reason in hell that he should be exerting himself out there in a preseason game. If he stays healthy through the year, he's going to be fine. He's still 7'6" and highly skilled. The conditioning, confidence and timing will all come back.
Having more moves is useful because generally that makes it easier for you to score. And averaging a lot of points in the season is a good indicator that you are capable of scoring when it counts. But, ultimately, the middle one is what matters. If we are fully confident that a player is able to always score when it counts, then why should we care how many moves he has or how many points he averages? These only matter to the extent that they are indicative of scoring ability.
lol how can we agree when your definition of a post game is different than mine. I only stated you think people on this board says DH doesn't have a post game. I merely said, that's in correct because other public boards have the same topics. Like I said DH has an effective post game (ugly/power move), am i wrong? Or should I just say DH has a good post game because good to you is the same thing as being effective. I guess JJ has a good post game because he was effective tonight.
An effective post game is one that allows you to score consistently against a defense. DH tends to score on put backs and set ups by Jameer or Carter. Occasionally, he scores on sweeping hooks and misdirection spin moves. The key here is that he occasionally scores using post moves, which means that he does not consistently score with his post moves against a defense. How can we say that he has an effective post game if he does not score with it consistently? We can assert that he is a dominant finisher and garbage man. His post game, however, is barely adequate.
Glad I missed the limp; I saw what I expected, now I am somewhat concerned. I just don't have a good feeling about Yao's health. It seems like he should be farther along after so much time. But, whatever. What will be will be. I just hope that this is not his last year and he retires. If he could fully recover that would be so wonderful.
So you think its possible for a player to be more effective in the post and simultaneously to be not as good in the post. No, because I would not forecast him to be effective in the long term, so why should I say he has a good post game? Conversely, if I did expect him to be effective in the post, than I'd have no problems with saying he's a good post player. You are as good as your are effective, and vice versa. Its only confusing matters to treat them as two separate concepts.
Give credit where credit is due. Howard showed something tonight, working on his game over the summer looks to have helped at least a little. Also to his credit Howard looked really jacked to play against Yao. He even threw in a little taunt at Yao after a 3 point play. He definitely looked like he wanted to take advantage of the fact that he knew Yao wasn't 100% to send a statement (even if it was just a preseason game). Howard certainly knows how his matchups with Yao in the past have been. For someone who's frequently portrayed as a mental idiot it was smart of him to try to establish some momentum and a tone now that Yao's back. As for Yao he looked okay as Scola would say. It doesn't really look like they've fully implemented Yao's offensive packages. Probably because he is still far from 100% they didn't really try to establish him down low or go to him like in the past. Makes sense, Adelman needs to let the other guys play and evaluate to make cuts and PT. Our entire old ass core until of Battier, Scola, Yao still looked very rusty.
Durvasa....the problem is your not taking a step back and realizing everybody has a different view on what defines "Good" vs "Bad" Instead you are asking me to defend why i think DH has an effective post game vs good. Because I rate it as poor - average - good. Great move on because DH to me has an ugly/effective post game. You can call it good, i call it effective. Plus your the one who mentioned this board thinks DH has a poor post game, in truth its many boards. Many of them have given many reasons why they think he has no post game. People shouldn't have to re-hash it.
Lets not forget Yao didn't look like his best playing his first minutes in 1.5 years against Dwight Howard the best center in the league. So how can we say he really looked bad? In comparison to dwight? (who looked like he can hit jumpers now, which kind of scares me) This is where people who say they know we have be patient with Yao are actually patient. I think we as the die hard fans in this forum shouldn't give the organization any additional pressure to force Yao to overdo it too early. We are going to lose some games while he has bad games sometimes, it is something to be accepted in his recovery. Personally I only care that he stays healthy long term, and is healthy for the playoffs. Drexler had it right (not saying he is right all the time, but I agree with him here), the offense is not in sync right now (preseason game 1 guys) but the chemistry will develop over time, Yao included.
He is the underlying issue, until we see it for 82 games, things don't change. Look at Yao, he got a major surgery, do we think he is going to magically be better based off 1 12 minute game? As stated, last year's preseason he was taking jumpers and using a bankshot (yes he was hitting them) and look where that got him. Same post game through last year's 82 games. I gave him credit. #1 center, best defensive player in the league with an effective post game.
Dwight Howard's post game -- actually everything about his game -- is rated far more highly on average outside this board than on this board. And your view on what defines "good" versus "bad" leads you to think that a player can be more effective at something and simultaneously not as good at it. That strikes me as totally incoherent. Why would anyone care to have a player who is "better" but not as effective?
What a surprise Knee jerk reactions after a rockets game!(or rockets anything for that matter) Who would have thought that would ever happen on clutchfans! Certainly not I!
