Panda, we have the same problem here in America with out best players not wanting to play for the World or Olympic teams. We just got our buts kicked in the World championships and we didn't like it. That doesn't mean we should suddenly pass a law that says Kobe and Shaq and Garnet and Iverson and Duncan must be made to play in the next qualifiers and Olympics. If they want to play fine. If they don't want to play, well that's OK too. I may be disappointed but I can accept it. That's what freedom is all about. I think Declan32001 makes the best points. The NBA has no power to control a players movements once he's on american soil. The Player's association would have a field day. As would the courts. If the Chinese government were smart, they would make it as easy as possible for Chinese players to ajust to life in the U.S. The players gratitude would make it much more likely that they would want to play for the home team.
<blockQUOTE>Originally posted by Panda I know there's some Wang fans around, but face it people, Wang is the one who's at the most fault in Yao Ming contractual issues here.</blockQUOTE>Bullsh!t. The Rockets have been lied to. This has nothing to do with Wang in any negotiations of FACE that the Rockets have ever had with the CBA and NT. The Rockets were told Yao would sign by now. I've been defending China before many of you were members at cc.net. But no more. China lied. They signed agreements with the Rockets, and are not living up to them. They are holding Yao hostage for reason outside of any agreement they signed in good faith. Like I said in my first post in this thread: This is unacceptable. All bets are off. Chinese officials are just enjoying their power of Yao, and using it. Don't even try to blame this on Wang. Wang is a free agent. The blame rests solely and 100% on the powers that be in Chinese Basketball. This is unacceptable. Shame on China!!!!!!!!
Panda, I've seen you get defensive before, but I've never seen you rant. First, I was no fan of Wang Zhi Zhi until I saw the Chinese NT play. I had respected his stated goal of trying to improve his play by staying in the U. S in over the summer, but was worried how it might impact Yao Ming and I also thought it was a legitimate concern on the part of the CBA that training with the team was important from a basketball perspective. After the WBCs and seeing the coaching of the Chinese NT, I could understand how Wang felt. If the Chinese NT had finished last without Yao Ming and Bateer, the world would have said they don't have the talent to compete. But the Chinese team had some talent (and great performances from those two) and I, for one, think the system is the problem. All the comments made here about the guards I think is ridiculous. They are not very good, but the coach and the system will dictate what the guards do more than any other position because they have the ball most of the time. Wang Zhi Zhi was the first Chinese NBA player. His eyes may be far more open than any Chinese coach or CBA official. If China wants to win a medal in the 2008 Olympics then the CBA and coaches must appreciate what their NBA players are telling them if Chinese basketball is to improve. Wang Zhi Zhi may be a disgrace to you, but all I'm saying is it might be foolish to suggest is this: That given the fact the fact China has just had the first foreign born and trained #1 overall NBA pick in the world, shouldn't the CBA question whether or not talent on that team is being used properly? Wang Zhi Zhi has. The Chinese government has, otherwise no Chinese player would have been made available to the NBA. He looks correct to the Mavs, Knicks and perhaps a large portion of the western viewing audience. Whatever nationality you are, basketball is about hoops.
Sorry, Panda, I omitted this: if China loses the Asian Games with Ming & Bateer, that says more about the CBA coaching and system than Wang Zhi Zhi's absence. And maybe if China doesn't qualify, it may improve Chinese basketball as a result. Because the CBA doesn't know how to use the talent they developed.
The problem is Wang ZhiZhi made a promise, an agreement to return and play for the NT on his own will. Nobody was forcing him to play in CBA or NBA. The choice was his. He agreed he will play for China if CBA released him to play in the NBA. It's good to pursue freedom, but not to the extent of disregarding responsiblity and being selfish. The CBA could hold him up, but they settled for that measly 350000 USD compensation and the reasonable requirement for Wang's NT service. That's open mindedness in my book. If I was to let go of my best player, hell no way I'd settle for $350000 and some free NT service. While it's said Yao needs to pay 50% of his money to China, according to Wang fans Wang didn't pay a dime so far to the Chinese government as that 50% rule is passes after Wang's release. How is it not a reasonable request to play some summer games that's vital for China's basketball when your country release you to make millions overseas, after years of free training, nutrition and instruction that the country gave you, while so many other 7 footers in China end up washing dishes in China? Especially more reasonable taken into account that Wang's a member of the army. You know how much do those army soliders make who's willing to die for China? 1/1000 of Wang's NBA salary, and now Wang thinks it's unreasonable for his country to ask him to play with a ball. Unbelievable. The problem I have with Wang is twofold, not only he fail to keep his word, but also he didn't show an ounce of gratitude to a country that helped him so greatly in becoming an NBA player. To think that I was ecstatic watching Wang score his first two NBA points make me want to puke. It feels like rooting for Scottie Pippen. As for what NBA can do to help foreign players, I'm no NBA expert and that's for China and NBA to negotiate to see what NBA can really do. It's ok for you to speculate that NBA can't help China in this issue but whether it's true remain to be seen.
If David Robinson blew off the US Navy's orders to play in the NBA he'd end up in prison. That's what's most shocking to me about Wang. He plays for a Chinese military team no? He's basically AWOL from the military and that's super serious in any country. Wang was stupid to blow off China's orders if he had any intention of ever going back there.
China shouldn't be the victim of Wang Zhizhi's personal gains. The same thing can be said about Dream Team 5, it's good for them to lose so that they can wake up, but deep down, do you really hope them to lose? wouldn't you do everything in your power to keep USA's invincible record? China's coaching is not NBA quality, but one coach Wang Fei doesn't represent the CBA's coaching and system. Following that logic, maybe all the NBA coaches should be fired for Karl's screw up.
China holding Yao Ming hostage? Did they say that Yao won't be in the Rockets hands if their requirement for Wang's return isn't guarenteed? Which Chinese basketball officials or the Rockets personel said that? I don't like China using Yao as a card to increase their leverage while pretecting their reasonable interest of NT service, but none made announcement that Yao's being an NBA players is contigent on China's receiving satisfactory guarentee of NT service. How do you know that China violated the agreement they made with the Rockets? Did you actually read that agreement in detail to call China a liar? Delaying is no way cancellation. It's a far cry from holding Yao hostage. It's just a stance, "We want to see what you can do for us to make sure our agreement being further reinforced before we realease Yao." Nothing is known that's akin to Yao's availibility so far. I call it bluffing 'cuz China would shoot herself in the feet if they back out of this deal. But I'm pissed off at Wang more than those basketball officials, if it were not for his hiding and running none of this will ever #$%^ing happen!
Hold it, HP, hold it. China promises it will issue Yao MIng's clearance (but doesn't promise when Yao can sign), and Rocket promises Yao can attend the Asian game. So far, no one contradition himself yet. So you can save that Shame on CHina for later.
Let be clear here. Correct me if I was wrong, I m sure some of you Chinese govt or CBA supporters will. I read that Wang refused to play for Asian games only after he was requested (demanded) to go home (China) with the NT to train before the games. God knows what might happen to him when he went back there. So he didnt just refuse to play the Asian games, only on not to return to China first and then play the game. One might argue on whether he breaks up any binding agreements with his ex-employer. Wang's behaviors or unpatriotism shouldnt have so MUCH bearings on the schzophrenic behavior (typical of the communists) of the CBA. Dont u think its a LITTLE too much to penalize Yao for something he didnt do. Wasnt Yao been good and obedient to his current employer. This is just so typical of the communist Chinese. Man. This stinks. Everything is last minute agreement, just like the initial agreement before the draft night. Separation of powers is a novelty in Chinese bureaucracy. It's still very much a centralized government. Again, as I have posted here before, their latest move is to hinder, at least they think it could work here, Wang's future employment here. Its naive to think that they are really SO concerned about Yao's deflection in the future. It's pretty much a smoke screen. In addition, Wang's behavior wasnt exactly a surprise to them once he had refused to return home for training few months ago. It's a chess game to them. Now Wang has made his move, they r waiting for NBA to make the next move. Too bad they didnt know only 2 players can play this game at the same time. But dont worry, they will eventually let Yao go, probably at the very last minute again, cuz they have too much to lose if they dont.
People may forget there are a lot of Chinese female soccor players in American League. They are back for the Asian games. Both sides are very happy. Yao's situation will work out in time. I believe.
I've been a Rockets fan since they moved to Houston and the Big E came back as a professional. I was only 8 then. This entire thread I believe has some relevance regarding Yao Ming's status and availability, but obviously most do not. After seeing the responses on this thread I see what Yao Ming is really up against when he gets here. Amazing. Well, if the Chinese really have their hopes pinned to Yao this closely, then I fear for him completely. Wang Zhi Zhi may just be a greedy jerk, but then again we Westerners have no concept of the deep sense of Chinese Nationalism. Well, as a human being I pity Yao Ming and Wang Zhi Zhi. Pity this poor sentimental Occidental mind at work here, but I must say "give the 7'5" guy who can shoot the **** ball". The CBA has their own agenda. For those who are so inclined, enjoy.
Has it occured to you guys while you are making up every conceivable excuse for Wang not to play for China, that Wang is not bothering to openly clarify the situation for his supporters? Do you call that info hold up as responsible as well? Don't you think as a supporter to him, he should at least let you know his intentions? Why blame China for Wang's breachment? You think you know China more than Wang does? If Wang doesn't want to go back to China in fear of punishment, he can work on defection or immigration. He never needs to go back to China once becoming an American. I didn't hear anything on that part, did you? Not to mention China wouldn't ask Wang to return without making promises that Wang wouldn't get punished. Do you think that China would say "come back Wang, we're gonna punish you." ?China will offer signed agreement if Wang insists to free himself from punishment. The mere sign that China is requesting, not ordering, Wang to return shows they are open to forgive him. If China is really so oppressive and backwards in you eyes, they can punish Wang by holding his family hostage in China and force him to come back! They also don't need to bother holding up Yao now to sort things out, 'cuz Yao's parents live in Shanghai. Has it ever occured to you guys that you would do the same holdup on Yao Ming like those basketball officials if you are in their shoes? Yao Ming is the last bargaining power China has on reinforcing the NT agreement, won't you try to use him as a card to let the NBA know the seriousness of such breachment in agreement? Has it occured to you that those basketball officials need to report to their bosses on why Wang is missing, and what are they doing to prevent the same thing happening in the future? and that they might be hold responsible for not getting guarenteed NT service but to conduct things only on goodwill, now that goodwill on Wang obviously backfired? or that those basketball officials have families to feed, unlike Wang, who doesn't have an ounce of financial burden now? Which part of the China govt behaviour is crazy to you? I hate the means of Yao being hold up, but I won't blame China's motive doing so, they are defending their reasonable interests within the framework of agreement signed with the Rox. Unless they declare Yao won't be released for whatever bullsh#t reasons they come up with, Yao is not being punished in my book.
very well said. panda, arguably the most valueable living on this planet, please, keep posting. your writings are my best subscription.
Panda, you can defend or hate whatever or whomever you wish to. Do you know anything about basketball? Do you care about anything about the NBA? Do you still have access to Google? Keep an eye on the clock.
Nobody knows for sure how Wang felt he was being treated when he was first released by the Chinese few years ago. May be he thought he had paid his dues already and didnt want to KOWTOW to these bureaucrats anymore. No one here was in his shoes. I m not a so called Wang supporter. We just cant be too critical of him without knowing all the "inside stuff". Dont think so highly of the current Chinese regime. They are authoritative bastards, arent they? Only a fool would suggest China could say outright they gonna punish Wang's family if he doesnt return home. What do you think the response will be from the rest of the world. That would be a really stupid move in this chess game of their. I just tired and sick of them using Yao as a pawn in their game. They might have all the legal rights to do so. But we all r human beings, we should be treated with dignity, not like playing cards.
Well said Panda and I agree Yao is China last chip to make sure they keep there NT intact and to tell you the truth I would do the same ....
And for argument sake, let say the Knicks signed up Wang for a multiyears contract. What do you think these Chinese bureaucrats would do. If they release Yao anyway, what's the point of holding him up now; they have already gotten all the possible guarantees NBA could offer to them. On the other hand, if they wont let Yao go, would you then say these people are a whole bunch of bastards, treating Yao like a pure commodity, without any concern of his career.
Does a riddle, by virtue of its existence, imply a reasonable answer? Will surety of a single belief spawn any fraction of success within life? Can you dribble?
