I apologize for my earlier postings on this thread. But as a diehard Rockets fan this thread really made me a little crazy. It seems to me attacking institutions, be it the NBA, CBA or Rockets management is well within the scope of basketball topic. Understanding where any of these institutions may be is not relevant to what I see on the court. Any Clippers fans would understand this. My comments were about basketball and I became ridiculous when confronted with CBA defenders. I have no defense for my posts, I expected to be banned. I didn't think I was being witty, I just expected someone to bring it back to basketball. Well, that was inevitable, but I inflamed some Yao fans, when I was defending Wang Zhi Zhi. I don't regret that, but I do wonder whether certain Yao fans are going to be able to hold up under the heat. I, as a Rockets fan, worry about Cat's head, wonder about Franchise's greatness and this is heresy for many Rockets fans. I was criticizing the difficulty Yao Ming's path to come here and feel I have somehow come off as a bigot. To anyone who is Chinese who feels compelled to defend the CBA, I apologize. To anyone here who is not a Rockets fan, I apologize for being possibly rude and wonder if I should.
Actually I was busy getting busy in Santa Cruz over the weekend... ... but what's there to respond to, exactly? I don't even know who you are, and I find it highly unlikely you said anything that I would find worth responding to. Maybe you have more than one identity and mixed'em up... but the name 'gottoloveit2' doesn't ring a bell for me. Oh, and one more comment... I had no idea Lil was Taiwanese, so that aspect certainly didn't motivate my comments toward him. That said, that explains why he's so ignorant about the United States except in very simplistic idealistic terms. He should stick to topics he's more informed about.
lil: I have nothing against common Taiwanese, but not those who's biased against China and try to defame China at every chance. You said that Wang Zhizhi fears to be in detention if he goes back to China, I and other posters requested some thing to back up that statement. Three days passed and still nothing from your side. I'm still waiting.
thank you panda for ignoring the main points of my post and contesting trivial points. let me give you a big round of applause for your classy debating style and personal attack skills. And since you call me out and insist on being embarrassed, i'll just give you the honour. 1) AP Newswire - Aug 21 A letter sent from the CBA to Wang in July published in the China Sports Daily read in part, "If only you return from abroad to train and play with the national team, the CBA and the Bayi Rockets will not make any punishment to you." The CBA said, "In the last three months, we have been waiting anxiously for Wang Zhizhi to join the national team. We sent him messages time and again, informing his national duties and asking him to come back, but he kept staying in the United States and never gave direct responses." 2) AP Newswire - Aug 22 "Returning to train with the national squad and representing the motherland in international competition is a glorious and sacred duty," said the letter, dated July 26 and published in the China Sports Daily. Although the letter mentioned no specific punishment, it contained a veiled threat that measures could be taken. No penalties will be leveled "as long as you return with all haste," the letter said. 3) Dallas-Fort Worth Star Telegram - June 7 Missing Mav might affect other Chinese By Dwain Price Star-Telegram Staff Writer LOS ANGELES - If Mavericks center Wang Zhizhi is trying to defect to the United States, it wouldn't be a very smart idea, a Chinese basketball source said. Wang was supposed to leave Dallas for China at the conclusion of the Mavs' season so he could train for the Chinese national team. But neither the Mavs nor Chinese officials know Wang's whereabouts. Meanwhile, the Chinese source said the Chinese government and officials from Wang's team in China, the Bayi Rockets, believe they've been stabbed in the back because Wang's new adviser, Simon Chan, just recently quit his job with the NBA in New York and apparently has the 7-foot center in seclusion in the Los Angeles area. "If Wang's trying to defect, it's definitely bad advice," the Chinese source said. "The other thing Wang's got to worry about is his family [in China]. "There are so many political implications, anything's possible." Last year, Wang became the first person the Chinese government allowed to leave their country and play in the NBA. Still - under an agreement with the Mavs, the Chinese government, the Chinese Red Army, the Chinese national team and the Bayi Rockets - Wang must report to Chinese officials when they say so. If Wang has gone AWOL, the Chinese government could refuse to allow Yao Ming, a 7-foot-5 center, to leave China and play in the NBA next season. The Houston Rockets, who have the first pick in the NBA Draft on June 26, have frequently talked of their interest in Yao .
1) how much do you know about the process through which foreign players are generally brought into the NBA? i'm not a sports lawyer but here is my take: Wang was apparently an exception to the CBA (collective bargaining agreement), in the sense that in addition to the 350K buy-out clause, there were other conditions attached to his release, namely his mandatory responsibility to play for China in various international competitions, agreed to by the Mavericks, as well as needing to turn over a portion of his salary to the Chinese league. This was well reported in the press last year around the time of his release from the CBA and signing with the Mavs. This does NOT have to be the case. But rather it is simply the Chinese league demanding more for its players than other foreign leagues. IIRC, Nachbar was had for just the 350K buyout from Treviso Benetton. No ridiculous "national obligations". Previous to Wang, foreign players had never entered with league with such conditions, state-sponsored training or no. Back in 2001, there wasn't a big fuss about it on this BBS (you obviously wouldn't know since you weren't here yet...) since it wasn't our team, and it didn't seem like a big deal to the Mavs organisation or Wang. Now it is a big deal for the Rockets, and so we will make a fuss out of it. 2) Kobe Bryant prevented any team (other than the Lakers) from drafting him by threatening to go play in Italy instead. Plenty of NBA players retire and then go play in foreign leagues. Plenty of players drafted by NBA teams choose to remain overseas and come play when they feel ready. An NBA teams' rights over a player only pertains to playing in the NBA. True, signed contractual obligations extend across leagues according to FIBA regulations. However, specific extenuating circumstances exist in Wang's case: a) What was the nature of his original contract with the Bayi Rockets (army team) in China? Is there a "free agent" clause comparable to the NBA or does a team hold rights to a player indefinitely? The existence of a fixed-length contract sets a limit on the degree of control a team has over a player, and gives the player more freedom to pursue fair market value and to play to his preferences in location and career development. If no such rules exist in China, then the rules for transfer become a matter of negotiation and OPINION. It just so happens that my opinion is that the way the CBA has handled it is altogether counter-productive both to its own stars and to its own reputation. b) In Western countries, reneging on a contract generates financial liabilities. In some cases, league-specific rules might prevent players from playing on other teams in the league (like in the case of substance abuse or draft rights). If a person wanted to move to another team, he can either 1) asked to be traded, 2) wait until his contract expires and he becomes a free agent, or 3) retire from the league (waiving salary) and either go overseas or wait out the moratorium on his rejoining another NBA team. In options 2 or 3, the teams lose their players for nothing, and so they often have an incentive to honour the palyers' request in 1). In China's case, Wang doesn't seem to have the second and third options. And if this flaw is sufficiently hinders a players development, then it seems reasonable to expect (if not justify) players "defecting" to other countries. Don't act so shocked or offended. Plenty of Chinese and other former Eastern bloc athletes have defected, for freedom, for money, for career development, etc. Wang would simply be the latest case. (Though I know he has publically denied this). as for heech, don't insult me if you don't know who i am. understanding america and the regulations of the nba (or any subject for that matter) are things i seriously doubt a newbie (both in terms of living in america and membership on this bbs) like you can challenge me on. and despite your insult, i've graced you with a response for the sake of discussion, even though this is an endeavor which i reckon is increasingly futile with the likes of you.
See you always misunderstand other's intention and assume for the worst. Not feeling secure huh? I was merely asking you to present me substantial info to back up what you said. As it's important in understanding Wang's situation. Is that calling you out? I don't think so. Will I be embarrassed if you can back up you statement? No. So stop being a 3 year old and play the game the way it should be played. I still didn't see anything that's related to Wang being in detention if he goes back to China in the material you presented. Your paper won't pass if I'm your professor but I guess you're lucky.
So that's your base of claiming Wang fears to be in detention if he returns China? Putting the credibility of that anonymous source aside, the fact that China let their most adamant and staunch political dissidents such as Wei Jing Sheng go to America to conduct their anti-China political activities doesn't support what that source has implied, that China will actually give a damn to Wang's defect to the extent of messing with his families. For what? making an international scandal? Yes, Wang is such a historical figure, his absence in China will send China into a downward spiral. Oh I feel so insecure in HK now that Wang isn't in China. The Chinese army never issued an order or made any public comments to Wang's situation, they flat out don't care. If things are that serious- to the extent of "anything is possible"- it's impossible for them not to act. I guess you think an anonymous Chinese basketball source is more important than the bahaviour pattern of the Chinese government and the silence as well as non intervention of the Chinese army. That's some serious understanding of China. Let me tell you this, since you and your anonymous Chinese source obvious has no inkling on Chinese affairs. There's a top level Chinese national ping pong player named He Zhi Li a few years ago, who got disgruntled at the sports system and she defected to Japan. She even represented the Japanese ping pong national team to compete against China in the Olympics(she lost, which was good. ) You think she could do that if her family in China was being held hostage? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From your posted articles: " 1) AP Newswire - Aug 21 A letter sent from the CBA to Wang in July published in the China Sports Daily read in part, "If only you return from abroad to train and play with the national team, the CBA and the Bayi Rockets will not make any punishment to you." The CBA said, "In the last three months, we have been waiting anxiously for Wang Zhizhi to join the national team. We sent him messages time and again, informing his national duties and asking him to come back, but he kept staying in the United States and never gave direct responses." 2) AP Newswire - Aug 22 "Returning to train with the national squad and representing the motherland in international competition is a glorious and sacred duty," said the letter, dated July 26 and published in the China Sports Daily. Although the letter mentioned no specific punishment, it contained a veiled threat that measures could be taken. No penalties will be leveled "as long as you return with all haste," the letter said. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does it say anything about Wang's being in detention? Penalties can be kicking Wang out of the army, doing some sprints, depriving his starter position, suing Wang in the civil court for his violation of agreement, or anything from possible penalty clause in the agreement. I don't see anything like "detention". Beside, obviously China doesn't want to penalize Wang for his refusal, as long as he abides his own words. If that's all you have now, can you find more on the internet? Where's your "Wang fear to be in detention" coming from?
i wrote that Wang faces potential detention. various news articles stated that threats of action were made against wang. the same articles also stated what sort of actions the chinese CAN take, namely keeping someone from leaving the country. it is simply 1+1 = 2. the array of actions which the CBA is capable of which may POTENTIALLY be taken against Wang INCLUDES keeping him from rejoining the NBA next year, and includes detaining Wang in China (i.e. keeping him from coming to the US). This is clearly demonstrated. if you can't understand that logic, it's beyond my patience to try to show you. you asked for the sources, i gave them to you. i don't care what you have to say about the sources. that's another debate. but next time, get YOUR facts and sources straight before accusing others of being biased or ignorant. it's called courtesy.
I'm not reading this whole thread but with all due respect China can kiss my Rocket ass. Arvydas Sabonis part two or am I wrong here?
I guess you care enough to repond to my little sarcastic comment. Then dont deny it. By the way I was responding to Heypartner's comment, not your. PLEASE BUTT OUT.
I'd tend to agree with this POV. This situation is a lot of smoke and not a lot of fire. 1. Yao Ming is going to play in the Asian games, period. 2. So, from the POV of the Chinese government, whether or not Yao is signed before then is immaterial. 3. Playing with the date of the signing is a way to twist Wang's tail, and try to make him look bad. And my 0.02 is that this is being done not for Yao, and not for the CBA, but it is being done to play the right games with internal Chinese sports politics, and keep the internal Powers that Be happy. Another way of looking at it is that a segment of the Chinese sports politic is a little nervous that Yao could go the way of Wang if they were to let him sign early and that Yao would not compete in the Asian games. Waiting a little bit to let him sign insures that he will be available for the upcoming Asian games. The fact of the matter is, China has everything to gain if Yao plays for the Rockets and also competes for China in International Tournaments. And given that, anything that stands in the way of these goals is going to be taken care of. Dave.
Having read through this entire post, I just had to make comment about the $350,000 buyout thing. I am very happy that the CBA (the bargaining agreement ) puts a limit on the compensation. It stops the NBA draining international leagues of all of their talent, since they have considerably more money to throw around than their (for example European) counterparts. However, if you think that the Grizzlies got Gasol for only $350,000 from FC Barcelona, think again. The player personally negotiated a buy-out value for his contract, and paid the amount over and above $350,000 himself. This made financial sense, since his earning capacity is greater than the cost of coming over two years early. Don't forget that some football players have been transferred for sums in excess of $40 million dollars in Europe, so limiting the amount that NBA teams can compensate is crucial, otherwise only rich NBA teams could afford the like of Gasol, Nowitzki et al. With the depth of worlwide talent ever increasing, the core of all American pro sports (the draft system) would become less and less important in the NBA, and the size of the owner's wallet (even) more so.
Yao really has no choice, he can not play in the CBA, now that the Rockets own his FIBA rights. If the CBA forces him to stay and play at home, FIBA will eliminate him from all World competitions. The Chinese want him in the NBA as do we....patience is the key. October is still 2 weeks away. DD
The following Chinese web indicates Ming will play the final game in China on Saturday (9/21) before NBA. It looks like Yao Ming is Houston bound. Be patient. http://news.xinhuanet.com/nsports/2002-09/16/content_563484.htm
Are you sure? September 21!!!! He'll be here for the entire Training Camp!!!! But wait. He still has to play the Asian Games, which last all the way to October 14. !!! Which one is right?!
No, he'll be here after the Asian game, which is outside China. So, that is why 9/21 is the last game, a warm-up against a US team for the Asian game, in China. In other words, he'll likely join our training camp at the time we originally expect. By the way, the Chinese post came out toady. So, hopefully, it is from good source.
So what conclusion have we come to from this source again? Is Yao coming in Mid-October or a new date according to this information?
The post does not state a precise date; but you can deduce that is right after the Asian game as he will not play again in China after 9/21. The only logical conclusion is, if the source is correct, Yao will be NBA bound after the Asian game, i.e. mid-October.
"Xinhua, the official news agency, originally reported that 41children and construction workers had died after eating fried dough sticks, sesame cakes and glutinous rice – but that number was pulled from its website, and replaced with an item yesterday that said "a number of them have died". The case has provoked an outcry over the government's grip on media coverage. Anxious local residents tried to cobble together information from a few disparate sources. Local media reported the Xinhua line faithfully. But The China Daily reported that rat poison – possibly deliberately added to the food – was the cause, and said police were questioning the manager of the company that supplies food to the shop." http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=334028 Yup, the Houston Chronicle "does not count"....China's "official news agency" is infinitely more credible
