Great, just base everything on your speculation. How do you know that Wang will be in detention? articles, links? Basketball officials said Wang is welcome to come back, but Wang insisted on not to play the Asian games-which is vital for Olympic qualification- as a condition to go back, thus being rejected by China. It's Wang who's creating barriers to go back, which part do you not understand? If Wang thinks what he did is right, why doesn't he stand out and clarify things for himself? I read enough of your "logic", I've yet to see how do you view abiding contractual obligation is being force to play, unless you can prove that the CBA forced Wang to go to NBA with the NT attachment you are spewing c*ap in my book.
Very well said! We all need to come together and enjoy the diversity. This is going to be one of the most exciting seasons and this ClutchCity.net Rockets message boards that I just discovered in May 2002 is a key reason.
This is totally unfounded. Wang is asked to serve a lot b/c China doesn't have luxuary of having many Bball talents. But nothing would happen to him, let alone hurt him if he comes back.
Not all remarks were us against the Chinese fans here. Dont be surprise if many are Chinese against Chinese from different parts of the world.
Three things to say here. 1) fwang, you have hardly been here long enuff to be assuming you know what is really going on in some people's posts. 2) I resent your assumption that I am a close-minded, conservative redneck that can't or won't try to understand other ppl's cultures or attitudes. Just because you don't like what is said by a few individuals on an internet bbs, you think you can pidgeon-hole an entire region/city/state??? I sir, am offended and would think badly of Chinese posters if some others here hadn't already shown me different..I hope in time you will also. 3) And to keep this post on-topic, I say relax, Yao will be here ontime and signed. This is too important for the CBA to screw up. damn newbies...how many days till the season starts?
Thank you guys. For your understanding. I also appreciate those who expressed respect on the Chinese culture and basketball, including heypartner. As for Wang's free will, true, he's his free will and he can pursue it. However, free will does not equal to good will or right will. I believe every American posters here have their free will, does that make every one of you guys correct in every judgement that's related to communism, or guilt free in your personal life in the pursuit of your personal freedom, including pursuit for money? I don't think so. Numerous American corporations and institutions have subsidiaries in China, nobody forced them to do so, can they back out of their investment agreement with the Chinese government at any time under the clause of being forced to sign such agreements, without providing any hard evidance but just say - "hey, they are communists and their system is evil"? Before saying Wang is a slave and he's entitled to do whatever to cut off ties, including legal obligation with his country, plz tell me why with something substantial other than "they are communists and Wang's under his free will". Free will doesn't equal to good will, saying it is automatically good will is a big leap without any linkage. I believe Yao will be a Rocket. Wang is not significant enough to effect China's overall determination of opening. plz be patient.
O.K. Enough lurking for me. 1, HP, other Houstonian (Texan) Rockets fans: please accept my apology for many of the unjustified bashing that have been directed at you guys. I say this from the bottom of my heart. 2, When I made the above statement, I obviously can't represent some of my fellow Chinese posters here. Fact is, nobody can represent all Chinese on any issue. Last time I checked the Wang Zhizhi issue is at best divided among Chinese people. So any Chinese poster here who wishes to make a point on the matter please do not use the expression "we Chinese". A more appropriate title would be "I and some other Chinese...", etc. 3, Panda, I love your posts. Sometimes you might seem getting carried away a little, but who hasn't every now and then? Besides, I love your passion. And you're a total gentleman, in that you always warn us before striking out a really long post. 4, fwang, believe it or not, I'm also a proud and patriotic Chinese. Last time Panda and Lil were fighting that WWIII over Taiwan, I almost set on fire a piece of paper with Lil's name on it. That said, I have to say that you've gone a little too far this time. Your appeal to other Chinese posters for bashing back is, (brain-storming here trying to find an appropriate expression...) not cool. Does China bashing occur here in clutch bbs? Sure. Does that mean that Houstonians/Texans/Southerners are narrow-minded? Hardly. I lived in New Orleans for three years and visited Houston several times. Man, I love that place. If my wife didn't love NYC as much, I'd be back to the South, most possibly to Houston, by the end of the day. Your opinion about the South, about Texas and about Southern people makes as much sense as those uninformed posts about China. I think you should cool down a little bit. 5, Lil, I don't hate you that much anymore since you started toning down your TI rhetorics. But boy, you love politics, don't you? If you read back your posts, you'd be amazed by how much you've opined on China-related politics (several times you initiated or tipped off similar debates). I hate to think that you have a hidden agenda, but your posts won't persuade me otherwise...That said, I don't blame you even if you do have a hidden agenda. Put me in your shoes, I'd probably do the same. Just don't put too much weight on information you dug out of the Yanking Library at that "rather famous" Massachusetts University. In GMAT writing you'd lose points for doing that.
to our chinese posters, sorry if my well-wishing for rockets and distaste for CBA folks appear politically motivated. you have my sincere apology. we share a common passion, the rockets and yao ming. and anything that gets in the way of that, gets blasted by me. i may know how to push the chinese pain button a bit more than others on this board, and my identity as a taiwanese may pose a particularly source of irritation to you, and as such i may have abused my position unknowingly. you won't see me bash the CBA anymore from now on. for comaraderie's sake. after all, we're all rockets fans. but before i go, i would like to ask some non-chinese posters on this board for my own education, have i really been out-of-line in this thread? have i really been political? is lamenting the CBA authorities' actions and the CBA's arrangements for Yao so inherently biased? i'm confused.
Lil, Obviously I don't meet the qualifications to answer your question. But let me clear things up a little bit. Please don't get me wrong. For as much as I love China and everything, I hate CBA officials as much as you do. On the Wang issue, I'm actually 100% with you. Even if Wang's decision to stay here during the summer was a completely inappropriate one (which I don't believe it was), CBA should never try to ruin his basketball career by threatening other NBA teams and holding back Yao Ming. It's not that CBA officials are morally corrupt or that they're "commies" or that Chinese are born "fascists" like one poster here tried to imply; I suppose that you're well aware that it's in the root of Chinese culture that collective interests are held high above individual ones. I'm not trying to make a judgment as to whether that's right or wrong, because you simply can't make such an overgeneralization about a culture. I just want to stress the fact that generations of Chinese people have been brought up with such beliefs firmly wired in their value system. You probably won't believe this, but last month a nation-wide debate arose when 5 college students died in their ambitious summer mountaineering attempt. Many blue-collar Chinese don't even believe that those college kids own the right to their own lives; they believe their parents and their country do. I disagreed and vehemently debated with people over the issue. The good news is, debates on fundamental issues exist and start to flourish in today's China, and are tolerated by the government as well as the general public. Chinese people are pragmatic. Look back and see how different the country is from where it standed just some twenty years ago. Things will change. Maybe slowly in China, though. I didn't say that you were politically motivated. I was just stating the fact that you were much more active whenever there was a China-related political debate around. But once again, I won't blame you even if you ARE politically motivated. On certain issues we can all become politically motivated. There're many Chinese people who won't mind engaging in friendly, political debates, regardless of the topic, in an appropriate forum. Time permits, I for one would love to discuss with you about the TI issue. Even if we eventually have to physically fight on opposite sides to settle the matter (what a sad idea ), I'd give you and Taiwanese people my full respect without reserve if and when you earn what you've been struggling for. For now let's just stop here and suffice it to say that I only hate people who play tricks, but I respect people who fight for their causes, even if their causes are diametically opposite to mine. I've met many "posters" who come to a BBS with nothing but arousing disturbance and hatred in their mind (some in their assignment). I didn't want what happened to many other bbs happen again to this wonderful board, at least not to this forum. After all, we come here to enjoy basketball, to have a lot stevie and ming fun, to bull$hit the Lakers; we're not here to debate politics. (I could be wrong here. Mr. Clutch could have a hidden agenda to make clutchcity the most famous polical forum in the world. ) FYI, I have many Taiwanese friends, some of them stern supporters of TI. And I'm fine with that even though at times I took to the street demonstrating against them, such as when President Jiang visited your "rather famous" Massachusetts univ. in 1998. I simply hope that you're not one of those who play tricks here. That's all.
This is totally off topic but interesting. China is changing so quickly. You can tell chinese posters' age and backgrounds by their stance on the Wang issue. A person like Panda is mostly likely around 30, American educated and lived in US for many years. A person who call Wang "martyr" is most likely born after 78, in the college or just graduate in China. Or a Chinese never actually been to China. I consider CCP's value system education after 88 a failure.
axmpo, this is the first time i read your post (didn't catch it this afternoon). i love what you wrote, and i agree with you 100%. wish there were more of you in china. yes. i am sensitive to particular political arguments. esp. when people say that china cannot be criticised... that's a weakness of my own personality. sorry that i put you in with the others in the other thread. i would put you and michecon as the two most conscientious and aware posters among the new chinese members. (of course W&S is like a god which we all try to be like. ) coincidently, i was on the taiwanese side of that protest line in Nov 1997 at the "rather famous massachusetts university" . and if you didn't notice. i was the one waving the huge taiwanese flag... i was also the one with the huge taiwanese flag when Jiang visited a "rather prestigious UK university" a couple years later. LOL... ahh i think it is beautiful that we can have such strongly opposed views on some issues, and yet share something as wonderful as the rockets. again, love you stuff. we don't have to agree on Taiwan (we probably never will). but i agree with you 100% on China and the Rockets.
axmpo....thx...no apology really necessary. I'm more pleased that I was able to slip out gracefully before I got into trouble with the admins....lol! One of these days, I will make fwang laugh. Lil, Many Americans hate Stern, as well. I don't see much difference in hating the CBA, but I sure wish I could read more about it, though. I did read interview with the head of the CBA. He is a middle manager Party guy. He was assigned the job. He said, "I like to paint. I would rather be a painter." He considers his job a chore. He is focused on make the league profitable. He is on record saying the owners don't know what they are doing, and that's part of the reason that wanted to get Taiwan and HK in the league...get some wholly-owned teams in the league who can spur advertising. My gut instinct is that he is not the bottleneck here, and neither is the CBA in general. imo, someone else is getting involved late in the game and they are muddling things up because they think they can force the NBA to do something special for Yao. The Sharks originally thought similar things. When the Sharks realized our Collective Bargaining Agreement rules, they understood and signed a contract. Whoever is getting involved now is probably going to have to learn the same lesson. What scares me is if that they become hardheaded and try to stare down Stern and our Player's Union. heech, I'm truly not following the whole "prove it in court" thing. Many wrong things can be "proved" in court. That aside, you seemed to be getting into the middle of a string of posts that you didn't follow, and you actually admitted to not knowing what I was responding to. The issue was raised to discuss what facts we know. I posted quotes and dates, and said my accusation of lying was just that, an accusation that a promise had been broken. I was answering questions regarding my sources, and I honestly said there is no smoking gun signed assurance. It was a matter of Goldberg's confidence changing enough to send a letter out Wednesday. The issue then became Houston papers are not trustworthy. I said they were the most trustworthy paper on this topic. Then you came in and said I can't prove anything in court by quoting the Chronicle...that's so freaking trite, like why would anyone point that out. Did you really think anyone here needs to be told that you can't use the Chronicle as evidence in court. You can pack up your "legal" talk and go home, now...you were not following the thread. Try to understand other people's conversation before butting in.
Heypartner:- If many Americans hate Stern then it must be racialy motivated? Because anyone with business experience thinks he has done a great job with the NBA. The only complaint I would have is that the upper echelon of players get paid too much money! I realy blame the Union and NBA for that.
Yetti, He is doing a great job with the NBA. However, the NBA's TV market share is not the best it has been. People b**** at him and blame him for the NBA becoming an All-Star game atmosphere that doesn't serve up the right basketball. We invented this sport. It is a big sport to many people. There is a lot of national pride surrounding this sport. People hate Stern because (in their mind) the sport has been degraded during his watch.
Who are these people that hate David Stern and why do they think that Basketball has been downgraded during his watch?
I, for one..but what I believe is wrong with the NBA may not be within his sphere of influence. I'm not exactly sure how to state it well, but here goes. It come down to the elevation of players into god-like figures that dont need no steenkin team to be the best.. Team play...there used to be alot more of it B.S. Now the emphasis is all on one on one play. Good team games are not reported on...only what the "elite" players and their teams are doin.. When was the last time that a team was respected for being a good "team"? Detroit? and even then, the main topic of discussion was Isiah... Tho, I must add that the Kings have a decent chance of pulling that off these days..They have a couple of guys who are hyped up...but most ppl acknowledge that they almost beat the Lakers thru a team effort..
I am responding to several messages posted in the last two days. Well, I have cooled down a bit but I do not regret my previous messages if you just go to check other active threads calling "Nuke China" or "Bomb China" then you understand what I mean. If those guys are simply too "engaged" so that they want to vent their anger which may not even justified considering Yao Ming is set to join Houston, where should the apology come from? The apology should come from those who lost their minds first. I noticed that some posts in that thread reminding people that the BBS is on world stage now. I welcome that. The fact is that a lot of Chinese fans joined the bbs since the lottery day, I think I can speak for some of them: we are sensitive about certain things just as you are sensitive about certain things. By now, we should have all known what the hot buttons are. We will need to exercise certain constraints. I would very much prefer the BBS discussion is focused on Basketball and any social tablits would be fine. Please do not use those abstract terms "human rights", "freedom", "Communism" in the discussion. As heech and panda pointed out, no one owns moral superiority and that will only make people feel offended. Finally, Lil, while I like your tranlation skills, I simply disagree with your arguments and I think panda has done an excellent job in educating you.
