Those analysis were good, but based on around 5 games only. Yao helps on offense too, if he is being used as a low post presence, not just a decoy. I don't know if Yao's high post game is hurting offense or help it. But I believe under JVG's system, Yao helped offense more than he does now.
this is why i question your seriousness - seriously. #1, i didn't think and say yao had a great game. i actually said in another thread that this game was slightly below his norms. #2, how do we define "scoring position"? all we have is lee's "raw data". enough for a fan chatting. to treat it like science or statistics will be silly. #3, the 1.05 figure you used as key support (admire your spending the time diggin' it) - was that league-wise figure based on one freaking game? or what? you don't appear to me like a silly dude. this is why i question your seriousness here. btw, what are the numbers for mcgrady and ron artest 10 games into the season for "points per touch/possession"? do you, or lee, want to analyze that? also, what is mcgrady's "pts-per-possession" just for tonight? or last night? does anyone want to talk about that? last, this thread was created by lee to "educate" the "crying babies" that they were wrong about yao not getting enough touches in the spurs game. did he achieve his goal? does any post in this thread prove yao had enough touches in the spurs game?
Nice thread Leeb, I applaud you for trying to get people to understand the subtleties of the game that can not be gleaned from looking at a box score. DD
that's counter-intuitive. i haven't seen it. if you give a source i'd take a look. but that may take us to go back to the yao in the low- or high-post discussion. one can easily make an argument that's because he's been put in the high post way too much. etc.
The analysis I was referring to was based on 4 or 5 seasons worth of data, heavily weighted towards last season. See 82games.com.
leebigez, I appreciate your effort and this is a good thread for discussion. If you have time, I believe you may also want to scout with your notes for the game we played against Spurs. We called for Yao with more touches is simply because we believe he is the player that could convert points for us when he got the ball down low. If Yao thought he should pass out the ball even if he was 1 feet away from the basket, so be it and he teammates should not have any single doubt to pass him the ball again in the next play. You tagged this game and judged that Yao did not often deliver when he got great scoring chances but didn't the guy just gave you 21 points tonight and we won the Hornets full-team? If those so-called "wasted" scoring chances are the overheads Yao needs to deliver a usual "productive" evening, so be it. When you have an offensive force like Yao in your team, you start your offense within the post. Once the "inside" game is established, your players along the perimeters are open. There's where you can start your "outside" game. Everyone is asking what's the identity of this Houston team and I say this is our identity. If you checked the 4th quarter of the Spurs game, how often did Yao get the ball? If our jumpers are falling then everything is fine but when the jumpers aren't working, what is the most reliable scoring option in our team? If the current team is built for future, I would not against the idea that Yao should adjust to fit into the new offensive system but we are in the win now mode. You don't request your pivotal player to adjust if you want to win now, you either - trade your pivotal player and get another player you think is more suitable to your new system; or - gather other players to supplement your pivotal players to make his game easier so that he productivity is ensured (and this is what I notice the Rockets Management did in the past few seasons). IMO, Yao hasn't established his confidence much enough in his games this season so far. He has not player high level basketball for more than 6 months. He himself should bear the most responsibility but it also relies on the new offensive system and his teammates. I think Yao should demand the ball more and be vocal more on the court like he used to in last season before injury. We can go no where playing with a 70% Yao even he could play healthy the whole season. If I am going to bet, I will bet on the vintage Yao to carry this team (the best Houston team in a decade), rather than a "discounted" Yao playing within Coach Adelman's offense. So I am all for anything that could get the vintage Yao back.
Maybe we were talking about different threads. I saw Artest, so I took for granted that it's just for this season.
"trying to get people to understand the subtleties of the game" by simply ignore the fact Yao didn't get many touches in that Spurs game?
I'm talking about all possessions in which Yao gets a "meaningful" touch -- he's looking to either score or draw help and pass out. It would be interesting to know how much we score per possession on average in those situations. I assumed Lee's 21 touches roughly correspond to 21 such possessions. But you're right, I can't know that for sure without verifying myself. It's just a rough guess. It's the league average so far this season. Slightly down from last year when it was 1.08. That would be interesting to track. Like what's our team efficiency on possessions we run T-Mac PnR/ISOs/postups? The difference is that Yao gets his touches at the end of plays -- after the offense has been executed up to a point to where Yao has freed himself for a look. McGrady gets most of his touches at the start of plays. So, naturally, there should be a higher success rate on Yao's possessions. I'm not sure exactly what his motive was. Probably to demonstrate that even if Yao is getting plenty of touches, he may not be doing very much with them. In this game, he had 21 meaningful touches, I thought the Rockets were more intent on seeking him out. And, in the end, he got up 15 shots in 33 minutes (taking into account the trips to the line). Pretty good, imo.
See this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=156723 I think for much of last season the Rockets struggled to figure out how best to use Yao in the offense. We're seeing some of that again this season. Perhaps that's what this analysis is capturing.
82games has those ratings, but its not split between offense and defense. Overall, just in 06/07, Yao had a +4.25. Very high error, though, since he didn't play many games that year. http://82games.com/ilardi1.htm
It's not about that one game, or even the end of that game. It's a general theme on this board that we lose because Yao didn't get enough touches. leebigez was trying to point out that 1) there is a big difference between fg's and touches and 2) in general he gets plenty of touches.
I don't know much about touches or shots but the statistic of the past ten games shows that if Yao scores more than 15 we win otherwise we lose. It's that simple.
I know fgs and touches are different. I don't mind if Yao gets single digits with tight double teams all game long so he has to pass out. But from the games I watched, in general he doesn't get "plenty touches" this season, not in low post anyway. Too many times he got his man sealed but only saw his teammates jack up a contested shot.
Hey DD, Nice thought, but the prob with this place now is the fact that most of the guys don't understand the game. Too many people on this board are cheering for individuals instead of the team as a whole.
Why can't Yao throw up 20-25 shots a game? I always keep wondering why he never does that... he shoots abv 50% usually and would be wonderful if he takes atleast 25 shots a game..
