Yao Ming Rejected for Taiwan Charity Visit, China Times Reports

Yuantian saying to the effect that there's a strong influence to this day greater than the effect France had upon Britain after the Norman invasion.

 

The Normans weren't French. Norman = "nor(th)-man" They were Vikings. See Rollo of Normandy.

 

What about the impact Europe had/has upon the U.S.? Certainly the influence is even more direct considering that the U.S. was a European colony only 230 years ago, but I don't think anyone considers our cultural and industrial output as European?

 

I stand corrected.

I meant to the effect that French and Norman were used as a language of the English ruling class while, over time, it trickled into English vernacular. Plus French and Norman culture and politics transformed the previous English values,and it established continental ties.

There are probably other members well versed in Chinese and Japanese history to illustrate their millennia old relationship of mostly one sided cultural exchange.

I agree. No one considers Japanese culture Chinese, but you can acknowledge Chinese roots, just as no one in the US speaks American.

Finally, it was a light hearted joke, just as a Brit would refer to us as the Colonies.

 

You know what they say: Truth in Jest

 

My understanding, please correct me if you believe I am wrong, is that the cultural transfer occured in a very intesnse way for a short period of time. I had to look it up at Wikipedia, but the dates appear to be over a very short period of time - starting with the Taika Reform Edicts in 645 to the end of the last Japanese mission to Tang China in 838. It has been my understanding that Japan operated for many centuries of self-enforced isolation until Admeral Perry and the Black Ships arrived in the middle of the 19th Century.

The Norman - English comparison would probably be pretty apt. There was a well developed existent culture before the importation of Chinese ideas.

 

Not to split hairs, but the Normans are a fierce tribe of warlike savages that originated just south of Oklahoma City.

link

 

I've skimmed this thread and I agree with Invisible Fan that I think this was a foolish stunt by the Chen Admin.. I also fully agree with him that its up to the Taiwanese to decide.

As an ethnic Chinese this issue has always saddened me that there is so much bluster on each side which we see illustrated here. Too often I see among fellow Chinese who are from or sympathize with the PRC an almost irrational paranoia over this issue that drives them to bluster about crushing people who think differently or to call other ethnic Chinese traitors in the services of the Japanese and Americans. Such language does nothing to advance the discussion and only hardens positions. At the same time I've found many of those who most strongly support Taiwanese independence to also take stubborn views and act petty suc as refusing to allow Yao to visit on a charity tour.

While I think economically it is probably in Taiwan's longterm interests to reunify I don't see any pressing need for them to do so. While Taiwan was part of China for a long time Ireland was a part of England for a longtime too and they have been able to exist apart from each other. As for a shared culture and ethnicity the same thing could be said for Australia and Canada in relation to the UK which all do fine as separate countries.

Whether Taiwan returns to China or becomes independent though the best thing for all is to do so peacefully. The bluster on both sides doesn't help and militarily while the PRC could overwhelm Taiwan it would be a costly victory that would result in likely millions of deaths and devestation for not only the PRC economy but for all of Asia and the whole world. War is in no one's and it disturbs me that people would be so quick to embrace that sort of rhetoric.

 

I thought he was mentioning US history.




D&D. Impeach Bush and Cheney. It's in Our Constitution.

 

there wasn't really any culture to speak off in japan before they imported tang dynasty culture. otherwise, they wouldn't have adopted tang dynasty stuff so much. anyhow, i learned japanese language for 5 years and doubled majored in east asian studies. not to complicate things here. but, japanese the language, is more than 50% chinese. and the thing is, japanese and chinese don't even belong to the same language family. so you can see here, how much they learned. japanese and korean are in the same family, and very similar in grammar and such. chinese and tibetans are in the same language family.

 

LOL ... talking about diplomacy of Taiwan, here's something I just read from a Chinese language forum [NOT related to PRC]:

Rough translation:

As revealed by former Taiwanese "diplomats," the leaders of "friendly" states with Taiwan have been making many ridiculous demands.

For instance, Charles Taylor, the former President of Liberia whose diplomatic relation has been severed, asked not only all his traveling expenses, including first-class round-trip airfares, 5-star hotel accommodations and restaurants bills, and long-distance phone calls, to be paid by Taiwanese "government," but also more than 200 ties he brought from Liberia to be dry cleaned in Taiwan, which cost more than $40,000. In addition, every time Taylor visited Taiwan, he stayed about a week, and he was given anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 allowances to spend.

More outrageously, when the President of a Central African country was visiting Taiwan, Taiwanese "Foreign Ministry" even procured escort service for him. At a restaurant in Taiwan's southern city Kaohsiung, the African President saw a girl he likes, the "Foreign Ministry" duly made the arrangement so that the girl went to Africa with him to be his concubine.

You don't want to talk politics here? LOL ... but you did! Sorry to bust your "diplomacy," brah.

 

wnes, those charles taylor shenanigans are certainly embarrassing for the Taiwanese, on that we can all agree.

Thankfully the PRC would never consort with the very worst of Africa to further their own interests....

cough...Darfur...cough

 

Why should I have problem with non-interventionism? Sam, I always suspect you are a closet Neocon. I think I am right.

 

non-interventionism = bankrolling, lol.

 

Trumps imperialism/gun-powder policy any day. No sweat.

 

LOL, I didn't know that not bankrolling the Sudanese regime constituted imperialism/gun-power policy. I guess that makes the PRC an imperialist for not doing Chuck Taylor's dry cleaning?

 

trade == bankrolling for one side ? That's news to me.

 

Nationalism is a funny thing. The Taiwan debate is as you recognize not unique to East Asia. India struggles with Kashmir are nearly a similar problem in that nationalistic drive is so strong a country will go over war for a small piece of land that really isn't all that relevant in the big scheme of things.

Why do Indians have so much passion over Kashmir? I can't explain it, nor do I understand why Chinese care so much over a small island.

My guess is that neither side sees the point in conflict. Eventually China will democritize and that will either make Taiwan more ammiable to unification or it will be a moot point and China will just leave it up to Taiwan. Of course, that could take a century, but it's not like Taiwan is going to run away.

China has to find a way to make unification a pleasant and even desirable prospect. As you said, a peaceful route will probably be the most efficient and least costly. But I also think it's foolish for Taiwan to push the issue too much as well since all that does is create unnecessary tension.

 

Too bad this moved to D&D and has gone way off topic. My thoughts on the Yao deal is that it's just a load of BS, but not surprising. It does sadden me that the losers, as always, are regular people. Those in Taiwan who are fans of Yao, and the needy who could use the money Yao can raise.

As for the whole "Are Taiwan and China one country or not" thing, how they possibly be two countries? If they were, then why would the Taiwanese government ever bother to declare independence? That's like saying some politcal party in Canada run on the platform of independence from US. You don't declare independence from another country.

As someone who doesn't have any opinion on it, but know many who do, I just wish for the whole thing to resolve. Either the Chinese government find some lame excuse to invade(Taiwan building WMDs perhaps?). Or Taiwan declare independence and China invade with an actual legitimate excuse(can't have the nation split into two!).

On a side note, it's weird that despite all this talk about independence, China brings a ton of money to Taiwan. The amount of money Taiwan businessmen make in China is enormous. Why would they possibly want to piss off their cash cow? I could never understand why people are willing to spite their own pocketbook.

 

I don't think those business man who trades with the main land really wants "independence". I think one of the problems with some from the main-land is that we tend to view all of Taiwan as one, while in reality it's probably split into many different groups with different views.

I view Taiwan as a part of China. I also think that they should have some sovereignty (I want to think of them more as Puerto Rico of China). What saddens me some what is that there pare lenty of people in both sides that don't think of each other as brothers. I think a lot of people in Taiwan (especially more of the natives) are trying too hard to deny their Chinese cultural heritage. While on the other hand, I feel majority of pro-"unification" mainlanders don't want an unification (which will require concession and compromises, like getting a marriage back together) but rather is more looking for a piece of land which they can legally invade.

P.S. I think the mainland government so far has done an admirable job in promoting "unification", their actions have show more willingness to resovle things in a bloodless matter as long as Taiwan doesn't intentionally provoke a retaliating action.