Yao Ming Rejected for Taiwan Charity Visit, China Times Reports

What progress? What is the point of apology? Is an apology only supposed to make people feel better for a few seconds? Would you call it an apology if you see no remorse whatsoever from the person making the apology? Would you accept it if someone says "sorry" to you face, but mutters "**** you" as soon as he turns around?

When you have the highest official, the prime minister, visiting the most important symbol of Japanese fascism and militarism every year in his official capacity followed by hundreds of Japanese law makers in full media view. I don't think I'm overstating anything. Oh, did I mention that Japan has just upgraded their defense office to ministerial level, and they are spending more than 50 billion US$ a year on their defense? Where is the overstatement?

The Japanese politicians are extremely successful in hiding the controversy because most of the reports of the protests are cast in negative lights. A large segment of the Japanese public now think it's wrong for the Chinese and Koreans to protest about the shrine visits precisely for the reason that they don't know enough about Japan's role in WW2 to understand why the Chinese and Koreans want to protest.

Why do you have to push and shove people into agreeing with well established facts? That's the whole problem isn't it? The Japanese public and government are by and large reluctant to accept the atrocities committed by the Japanese imperial army in WW2. How could you expect them to learn from their mistakes if they are not even willing to accept that they had made a mistake?

Actually, not any more, especially after we pushed them out of power and took their land and integrated them into our society, and also for the fact that we know they don't have the power to harm us again. But, if you could go back 500 years and talk to the Hans at the time after the Mongols massacred their families and burnt their cities, I'd say there would be a lot of hate.

Wow, you are such a genius, maybe the Chinese should just totally trust every single country that claims to want to be peaceful and disarm the entire Chinese military system.

I wouldn't go as far as genocide, but total destruction of their military capability and their fascism right wing politicians would sound pretty good.

 

Nazis caused the deaths of 6 million Jews.

The Japanese caused the deaths of around 20 million Chinese.

Think about that.

 

It's meaningless to compare which group suffered more, let's just put it to rest.

The Holocaust and Japan Brutality is just a little different in nature. The Holocaust is based on hate that drives a genocide. The Japan Brutality is largely based on coldness. The Jews were killed like they were pigs in a slaughter house, where efficiency of killing matters. The Chinese were tortured and killed like there were mice under the paws of a cat.

One vivid example that sticks out my mind is, beside the Chinese beheading game between two Japanese soliders that were published in Japanese papers then, was a picture of a Chinese soldier, whose head was cut off, placed on a stool, with a cigarette put in his mouth. Burning people alive for fun, using Chinese as bonnet practice targets, gasing civilians, sex slaves, burying people alive, rape a woman then cut off their breasts... are what typifies Japanese brutality in China.

To this day, the Emperor of Japan, the spiritual leader of Imperial Japan, still didn't apologize for this sickening coldness in that killing humans and sufferings are largely regarded as entertainment, the utmost disrespect a man can imagine displayed in the most sadistic ways a man can't imagine.

 

That was a very close description of the strategy implemented by the Japanese army during their invasion of China. They only reason why the Japanese were not as systematic as the Nazis was because China was actually so big and had so many people, that such a systematic implementation of their strategy would not have been possible. But I'm sure the Japanese tried really hard ... there were over 20 million murdered Chinese as the proof.

The Japanese performed a lot of studies in killing Chinese civilians. At the beginning, they would just line the Chinese up and shoot them ... but then they realized that it was such a waste of ammunition, they decided to just force the Chinese to lay on the ground and run them over with trucks.

The Japanese also routinely rounded up Chinese civilians to initiate their new soldiers. The initiation was as simple: they knelt the Chinese down, and cut their heads off; or just tied the Chinese up to a tree and ran them through with their bonnets. The result of the initiation was that by the end of it, the Japanese soldiers no longer regarded the Chinese as humans therefore wouldn't think twice when killing them.

Now, don't get me wrong. I feel very very sorry for the suffering of the Jewish people, but I don't think they are worse off than the Chinese who were murdered by the Japanese.

 

Japanese thought they could conquer a weak China in just three months, but they run into resistence and stalled, aside from their usual torture and killings, it is said that the fascists thought if more Chinese were killed, then less resistence there is. It's also easier to rule over the vast areas of occupied land if the Chinese population was reduced by nth times. Killings Chinese were encouraged, as evidenced by the Japanese media's interest in publishing the story of Chinese civilian beheading game between two Japan soldiers, if memory is right, both killed over one hundred Chinese each until their knife was too blunt.

 

No, it's not.

ALl of you PRC nationalists should realize that going onto a message board and trying to minimize the holocaust is a bad strategy.

You should have never brought it up. I suggest you all drop it now.

 

I will remember these statements for quite a while. Somehow in every one of these threads, every time I begin to develop a bit of sympathy for the Chinese position, someone manages to come up with gems like these and the jingoistic xenophobic nature of China becomes evident.

In fact I'm going to set the second one as my signature so I don't forget that you believe if China hasn't crushed all its neighbors, it can not be happy. I hope you are embarrassed for your hate, but like the guys on Cops, if you knew better you wouldn't make such an @ss of yourself in front of everybody in the first place. Your philosophy more closely mirrors that of Imperial Japan than anything coming out of those islands these days. You are what you claim to hate and you can't even see it.

 

You have been talking like the Chinese are the only ones who have problem with the Japanese (I am not talking about this post only). Mind you, it is well known that the Koreans are as passionate, if not even more, about that as the Chinese. We seldom hear from the Koreans on this board only because most of the Asian posters here are from China. I guess that gives us the wrong impression that only the Chinese are ballistic about the Japanese. And there are people in Taiwan who goes to Japan to demonstrate almost every year. There are also in other Asian countries like Malaysia and Singapore even though they are not as organized as those in Korea and China. The revisionist text book controversy first surfaced in the 1980's when Hong Kong was still under the British rule. I still remember ten of thousands of people in Hong Kong, who grew up under British education systems and holding British passports, demonstrated on the street against it. The most major mass demonstration happened in 1982 if I remember correctly.

 

You get so uptight just because some bbs poster said Japanese war atrocities were worse than Holocaust yet you don't seem to have that much problem with Japanese government saying they did not commit war atrocities, the irony.

 

This is not about Japan's government, this is about a pretty pathetic attempt by a bunch of chinese nationalists to minimize the Holocaust to gain points on an internet message board.

 

Who is minimizing the holocaust? All they said is it is not as bad as Japanese atrocities, it is like rank who is number 1 vs who is number 2 type poll. They all said holocaust was one of the worst atrocities. Their statements makes you upset (at least that's what I get from your posts). How do you feel the Chinese felt about the Japanese atrocities??? That the Japanese government keep coming up with new ways to reopen old wounds does not seem to matter to you as much as some bbs poster's opinion is what makes most Chinese (American or otherwise) uneasy.

 

First, as to the holocaust and the rape of Nanking. Why do they need to be compared at all. Does the fact that a higher number of raw people were killed in Nanking make it worse? Does the fact that a higher percentage of the Jewish people were killed than the Chinese make the holocaust worse? Is beheading worse than starvation. Are concentration camps worse than killing for fun? What difference does it make. They were both bad and they both happened a long time ago. We should never forget either of them, but they shouldn't have any effect on our lives now. I don't get furious because the Roman Empire conquered and enslaved my people, and now they make movies and television shows glorifying it (I loved the show Rome and the movie Gladiator). I don't go around apologizing for the crusades. I don't beg forgiveness of every Indian (not from India, the other kind) I meet for the genocide of his people. I don't ask every black person I encounter how I can repay him for the horrors of slavery and later unfair practices (eg Jim Crow) in America.

No one has said that the Chinese are not allowed to protest. Someone trots out that allegation every time this gets discussed, and it is bull****. What can be said though is the Chinese are a bunch of hypocrites. They have no problem with visiting Mao's shrine, when he was responsible for as many or more Chinese dead as Imperial Japan. If it wasn't about this it would just be something else. The Japanese should put the Rape of Nanking in their textbooks and make a statement against atrocities in WWII whenever visiting the Yasukuni shrine (and fix the museum in said shrine to be factual). The Chinese should make a statement against Mao's purges, the Cultural Revolution, the Great Leap Forward, etc. when they visit Mao's shrine. While they are at it they should let their people have self determination like the rest of the civilized world.

To get back to the point more closely related to this thread, it is obvious to anyone with a clue that Taiwan is not part of China. They have their own government, the people are not subject to Chinese law, they have their own military, etc. That there are Taiwanese people that work and live in China does not make it a part of China any more than American people living and working in Saudi Arabia make the US part of that nation.

To get back to the actual point of the thread, if the freely elected government of Taiwan wants to deny Yao a visa because they think it is in Taiwan's best interest to do so, they should do it. If the people of Taiwan disagree and care enough about the issue they will elect different people next time.

Keep on keepin' on everybody.

 

You uncork a dandy from time to time, SM. I don't agree with every bit of it, but outstanding!



D&D. Impeach Bush and His Puppeteer.

 

Pretty much uselss debate as are most topics on D&D. In the end if things could not be resolved peacefully, I guess power (as is the case 99.999% of the time) wil settle things, what a big surprise.

 

SM:

I don't agree with comparing the damage of Holocaust to Japan Brutality, they are all astronomical. I understand why some people want to discuss it though, because they feel the gravity of Japan Brutality should be emphasized to make some people unaware of its nature understand, that what Japan's Neo Fascists are doing now is extremely serious violation against human rights on the degree, or more than the Neo Nazis. But of course, despite the efforts, it inevitably falls on deaf ears.

As for using Mao as an excuse to stereotyping Chinese as being hypocrites, I do think this tactic reeks of hypocrisy itself. Nobody is asking the Jews to disown Israel for the things it has done to the Palestinians to make anti-Nazis movies and anti-Neo Nazis protests, nobody is asking the Russians to condemn Stalin first to protest against Neo-Nazis, but here we have, people like SM being upset because Chinese don't denounce Mao before they excercise their rights to protest against Japan's Imperialism and Neo Fascism.
I'll rest your case of hypocrisy here, SM.

And SM, don't pretend you know every Chinese out of your urge to stereotype Chinese and rationalize your position. I, myself, don't like MR.Mao for one bit.

You call people who thinks Taiwan is a part of China have no clue, you can submit your case in the United Nations and find out yourself in the extreme minority. The world take sides with us, and Taiwan now is still under the name of Republic of CHINA, and you can stick your head into the sands one more time to avoid this fact.

I ask the Emperor of Japan to apologize to the Chinese for the atrocities done under his name, I ask Japan to stop honoring their serial rapists and mass murderers and apologize to the living victims. If you don't agree with it, then you can kiss my a$$.

Peace.

 

Not to be pedantic, but the current Emperor has had exactly 0 attrocities commited in his name.

 

Jingoistic xenophobic nature of China? You were the one that brought up why Chinese don't have the same problem with the Mongolians as they do with the Japanese, and you were the one who accused the Chinese of wanting to commit genocide to the Japanese, and you have the grace to call me jingoistic and xenophobic?

I don't think I should be the one to be embarrassed, I expressed no hate in any of my statements, everything I said was factual and in answer to your questions. You can misquote and twist my words in whatever way you like, and that only shows your bias, not mine.

 

You are right. The royal family is a continual political entity of Japan, I will call that atrocities done under his family's name then. It was Emperor Hirohito who signed the order to invade China, for which he never apologized. I don't care much about personal apologies from high level government officials, nor do I want every Japanese there is to apologize, I have Japanese friends and I never asked them to apologize or even talked about the invasion, if Hirohito's current successor Akihito apologizes on behalf of his royal family and Japanese, I'd accept that apology and call it even.

 

I didn't bring up the holocaust, someone else did. I didn't minimize holocaust either, don't put words into my mouth. You are the one who needs to drop it.

You've only seen a handful of posts from me, and you are ready to judge me as a PRC nationalist. You've completely missed the point of the Chinese and Korean protests -- these protests are not to start a war, but to ensure that the Japanese public know that what their government did in WW2 was wrong and they should never go back to their old militarism way and start another war.

 

The Emperor of Japan is the symbolic head of Japan, and has been the rally point of the Japanese right wing fascists even before WW2. The father of the current emperor was the one who ignored and even condoned the atrocities committed by the Japanese imperial army during WW2. I would have thought that it was the duty of the current emperor to actively promote peace and reconciliation between Japan and its neighbors -- just to point out the obvious -- he hasn't been doing it.

Using your logic, there would have been no need for the ex-German Chancellor Helmut Kohl to offer any apologies to the Jewish people because he didn't do anything bad to the Jewish people either, but he apologized anyway and in a very sincere manner. More importantly, Germany did many things to show their remorse for their atrocities in WW2, and these are the things that make the rest of the world believe that Germany's remorse was real and they will not go back to their fascist past and they will remain peaceful. The Chinese want the same thing from the Japanese, and they haven't been able to get it.