Actually I did a little research on James, the article on nbadraft.net was one of the articles I went through. One thing I need to point out is, all the assessments on James are based on high school competition. I wonder how many James' magnificent passes would be intercepted by NBA players, and how many dunks he could throw down against NBA 7 footers instead of against 6 feet high school centers, or how many more shots he'll miss against defenders at the same or bigger than his size on a nightly basis. The weaknesses in James games are covered up by very low competition and the strong points being magnified by his physical advantage. He won't have those luxuries at all or to a much lesser extent as a pro, in any league. I'd say James game would experience a huge dropoff in the NBA, a lesser but substantial one in NCAA and CBA. Just because Snow White looks good among dwarfs doesn't mean she'll win miss universe ya know. The point is, no matter how good those scouting reports make him out to be, those assessment must be taken with a grain of salt, for the sole reason of the high school background. James is bound to face much bigger, quicker, smarter, and more skilled opponents in any higher level. On the other hand, currently it's hard to find a bigger NBA center than Yao, a more skillful NBA center than Yao, a smarter NBA center than Yao, and Yao is quick and agile at the NBA level. Yao is the closest center prospect to Duncan in the last few years drafts. It's not a close call at all. Yao will experience huge dropoff gamewise in his rookie season. Unlike James, since Yao won't face opponents with much physical disparities in weight and height, and his height advantage remains, there is less doubt on his transition than James. It's up to you to believe that James would beat up Yao in the CBA, but until proven otherwise, it's just a hypo. On the other hand, Yao plays in a league where former NBA players play. Yes those were scrubs, but an NBA scrub is still better than 99% high school ballers. I've never heard of a US high school baller scored 70 points in a game either. The CBA is higher than US high schools and lower than NCAA. Yao's numbers are much better than James. That speak volumes on Yao's worth. I'm just amazed at how people discredit Yao based on the lower competition factor, and suddenly the factor of lower competition went out of the window talking about a high school kid. Have a nice day, ya'all.
Lebron is just another "baby jordan" they are just stars, but they'll never achieve anything close to MJ.. obviously, Kobe is the best "baby jordan" thus far... but he couldn't win nothing w/o Shaq... he's just a sidekick...
too bad james and ming didn't cme out the same year, then we could see who is better, or would win ROY
Why choose? Both will most likely be great players in their own right for many, many years in the NBA. They may eventually be the future ambassadors of the game, who knows? But, given the choice between a center with unlimited potential and untapped skills and a shooting guard/small forward with unlimited potential and untapped skills, I'd have to go with the center nearly every time - unless, of course, my team already had a center like that. LeBron James may be the product of overhype, but he's going to go #1 next year and will excel almost immediately in the NBA. Yao Ming may be the product of a bit of bashing, but he went #1 this year and will excel almost immediately in the NBA. Considering the players the Rockets have, they almost assuredly would've taken Yao Ming #1 if he and James were both in the draft this year (contract issues aside), as I'm sure everyone outside of the Spurs and Lakers would have. Why? It all boils down to the big vs small argument again.
Well Panda I can see you have thought a lot about this. If you are still around posting a couple years from now we will see for sure how good LeBron is going to be - it will be interesting to see if the hype is for real. But, I would like to point out that comparing him to Eddy Curry and Kwame Brown is just wrong. Niether of these two was regarded nearly as high as LeBron coming into the draft. Kwame only went number one because Washington's front office sucks knobs and the draft was so weak that year. Can you believe Griff sank to number seven in such a shatty draft? They thought Griff had personality issues but he has been nothing but an angel in the pros. And what was that bit about Harold Minor? No one ever thought Minor was going to be a star except for the people who think dunking good translates into dominate basketball skills. And what are ya'll comparing Chinese pro ball to US highschool ball for? Two entirely different games. And when you said that LeBron was facing very low competition and had a big size advantage you are extremely wrong. 6'7'' is a normal size for an American highschool front court player in a decent program. I played highschool ball at Kingwood, a 5A school, in 1990 and we had two 6'10'' guys and a 6'8'' guy as our starting front three. We had about 5 guys coming off the bench taller than 6'5''. This is normal for 5A public schools. LeBron plays at at a private school, SVSM, and was given a scholarship along with all of his teamates to come and play there. He plays against other private schools that recruit from all across the world, schools like Oak Hill where Tracy McGrady went. To say that this is poor competition for a teenager is ridiculous because you will not find better highschool competition any where in the world. And besides if you took the McDonalds all Americans and pitted them against the China Mens team you would have a twenty point victory for the prep players. They wouldn't beat some of the more fundamentally sound European teams but China would be a breeze. This being said, Ming is going to be great and I am glad we have him instead of James because we can't have too many flashy scoring types without causing chemistry problems. Ming should be a perfect fit and really open things up for Cat and Steve. Also Ming is 21 and will mature in time to be around when Steve is still in his prime.
I was going to say the same thing about high school competition. There's no reason to think the CBA is above high school competition. ESPECIALLY the high school competition that WE'RE talking about. Like Legrouper said, they are not 6'0 Centers. They are all legit. They recruit from all over the country. "I've never heard of a US high school baller scored 70 points in a game either. " Try Dajuan Wagner for 100 points? For James, it's not a question of stats. If all he wanted to do was score tons of points, he could. But his team has an almost perfect record, and his overall stats are incredible for a HS'er. "Yao is the closest center prospect to Duncan in the last few years drafts. It's not a close call at all. " If, and that's a big if, this were true, it would mean little to nothing. Because you, yourself, will see the difference between Duncan and Ming. Ming will ultimately become a great player, but he won't START as a great player like Duncan, and he won't be MVP as long as Francis is here. it's obvious you have done some research on James. But to say the reports are based on HS players, that's not relevant. He's schooled NBA players in workouts. John Lucas said that he's probably the most NBA ready high school player ever. I respect your opinion. I think Ming will become a great player too. But Ming will take longer to adjust to the NBA than James, and James is younger. So if SOLELY based on that argument, James has 3-5 more seasons of NBA ball in him.
Mings / James 1) Which one will, or is, more concerned with a shoe contract then with basketball or improving? 2) Which one will be more willing to listen to coaching and willing to work to improve, or already think they know everything? 3) Which one will be able to think for themselfs without checking with their Mother first? Seems to me the overseas players have a better record then high school players with making it in the NBA. But there are exceptions.
What about Mings International Tournament stats??? I hear all this talk about how the CBA stats should not be taken seriously but what about the international tournaments he played in against TOP EUROPEAN TEAMS???? Afterall, he averaged 20 + pts, 10 + boards, 3 + blks and shot 55% + FG percentage against some of Europes best.. He even played against many NBA starts like Turkolou from Sac... Nowitski and Bradley played as well but I am not sure if Germany played China..
Why not take both of them? Rockets have done the difficult half. now let's design a strategy for the rest half.
Ok, Dejuan Wagner scored 100 points in a HS game, and he's selected at 6th by the Cavs. That actually reflects why James should be hailed to a lesser extent while he failed to dominate like what a No.6 pick did. Of course, one game doesn't make or break a player, but scoring 100 points is not so rare in the HS games. I heard on some bbs that there is also another player outdid Wagner by scoring 101 in the same game, and that player remains a nobody, at least to my best knowledge. If a nobody can score 101 points in one game, one can imagine how poor the high school competition can get. Did James even ever break the 50 points mark? I just fail to comprehend how HS competition is better than the CBA. You might get the impression that the CBA sucks like hell from the poor performance of the Chinese NT team, but the NT team is not always a good indication of a league's level. For example, the Chinese NT coach sucks and he's pulling Yao's hind legs by not going to him all the time, he also didn't choose capable players that could get him the ball, all he did was to find some slow as* shooters and ignores entry passes and defense, which is really laughable cuz when they don't have a post game what are those 3 point shooters for. He doesn't change game strategies according to circumstances as well. As a NT there's no CBA foreign players either. If Shanghai Sharks get to play against the Canadian team, I bet it'd be another senario. I have no problem that others choose James over Yao. It's just the "James in a sec, it's a no brainer" kind of attitude rubs me in the wrong way. James may be a prospect as great as Yao, but claiming James is a clear upgrade of Yao without any explanation shows a lack of understanding to Yao's game.
To be honest, I didnt research on Lebron like some of you, or shoud I say few of you do. I agree with Panda that it is legit to ponder on who is better. They play different positions, so it really depend on what player you need on your team. What really get me is I didnt hear that much bashing on Lebron like on Ming. I wonder how many of those bashers actually saw Ming play, and those praiser of Lebron actually watch James in action. They said Ming's performance in CBA, international and Olympic games dont matter, because our college competition is superior to all of the above. I bet they might even now say our high school basketball level is also better than them too. I m sure there are 6' 9", even 7 footer players in high school, but most high school teams dont. Lebron might have played with some NBA players in camp and left a good impression with them. But could someone please inform me on exactly how he did in those games. Did he score 30+ points against NBA caliber players, playing good defense, creating open shots for his teammate, or is he just a selfish, flashy baller. Despite the poor performance of the Chinese national team in international plays, they did win some important games. As a matter of fact I think it was Australia that lost to China during the 2000 Olympic and Ming was only 19 at that time. I guess since our basketball level is so much ahead of the rest of the world, I think we should send only our high schoolers to 2004 Olympic instead. I am not saying Lebron will be a bust in NBA. I dont know, nobody knows. The fact that he got more hype than Kwame Brown is no guarantee he'll be the next Jordan. By the way, how many of you did say Brown will be a BUST back then. We are talking about potentials and risks. In my opinion, Ming has more proven ability in higher level of competitions than Lebron. It just annoy me that so many people come out to say Ming will be a bust, the next Bradly. I havent seen one post to say outright Lebron will be a bust.
whew, that's almost too much flawed logic for me to take in a single post . . . just cus lebron doesn't drop 100, he's not a badass? tmac never dropped 100. kobe never dropped 100. garnett never dropped 100. i guess they suck. haha but again, this is a flawed argument . . . when ppl say shaq vs kobe, it's a different situation . . . ming will be nowhere NEAR as dominating a force as shaq, and lebron is better than kobe / any other player at this stage of his career . . . think of it as more like a jordan vs duncan, in their respective primes . . . lebron won't be quite as good as jordan, and ming won't be quite as good as duncan, but the situation's the same . . . duncan's the man and all, but i'd take jordan . . . just because someone's the best big man in the league, doesn't mean they are by default on par with wilt / hakeem / &c
Read my post again. I specifically said one game doesn't make or break a player. There's also no hinting in my post on Wagner being better than James, or James is not a bad ass. It's just that if James is the next Jordan why couldn't he muster up 50 points in one game for just once, while his acclaimed inferior competitors score one hundred points, not once, but twice? Don't you think it's a little strange? Has it ever occured to you that James might not be Jr. Basketball god that people make him out to be? Now I don't want to hear those "he won't cuz he's too unselfish" argument. A leader of team should have a breakout game once in a while. James is good, but how good? He's certainly not as explosive as Wagner when it comes to scoring, therefore he deserves the benefit of doubt and "be hailed to a lesser extent". The 100 point game was used as a proof that the high school competition isn't good enough to be considered by the NBA experts as a worthwhile gauge of talent. If one player scores 100 once in the NCAA, the NBA GMs would sell their muthas to get him. Not the case with Wagner 'cuz he played in such low competition. That game helped build his scorer's image, that's all. I don't wanna hear no more about an 18 year old high school kid being locked to tear up the NBA, or he's the best non-NBA player in the world without a doubt. That's just not right.
I find it useless arguin with you guys since your posts consist of defending Ming and saying you don't know about James. So here's all of what you need to know. BTW, Diop is 7'0, 310lbs. Also, the school he was in isn't even one of the biggest ones. LeBron dazzling for Cavs 05/23/02 Branson Wright Plain Dealer Reporter The move was so smooth and so quick that Bryant Stith followed LeBron James' spectacular dunk with the only logical reaction - by calling a timeout. Neither Stith nor any of the participants during yesterday's Cleveland Cavaliers' volunteer workout could believe what had transpired. The workout was part of a four-day camp that ends today. "That dunk was so unbelievable that you wouldn't have believed it if you would've seen it on replay," said former Toronto Raptors assistant Johnny Clark, who was in attendance. "I've seen a lot of basketball but I've never seen anything like that." James, a junior at St. Vincent-St. Mary, is considered the top high-school player in the nation. He was invited to the workouts by Cavs coach John Lucas along with several Cleveland State players and some free agents. James played on a team with CSU players and Lucas' son John Jr., a freshman guard at Baylor. They competed against Cavs players Bimbo Coles, Chris Mihm, DeSagana Diop, Jumaine Jones and Stith. Willie Anderson, who last played in the NBA with San Antonio in 1998, remembers the last time Lucas invited a high school phenom to an NBA workout. "John invited Kobe [Bryant] to work out with us when I was in Philadelphia," Anderson said. "Just like LeBron, Kobe was heading into his senior year and LeBron's the closest thing I've seen next to Kobe at the same age. But LeBron has a little more power and strength than Kobe did. I'm very impressed." Clark said being impressed by what James did yesterday is an understatement. "He's something else," Clark said. "Instead of LeBron looking out of place being out there with NBA players, he looked like one of them. He fit right in." This wasn't the first time James has played with and against NBA players. As a sophomore, James participated in the top-secret workouts that Michael Jordan held in Chicago while he was contemplating his return. James jumped at the chance to play against pro players again. "I appreciate coach Lucas inviting me out," James said. "Whenever anyone invites me out, they must believe I'm good enough to play with them, so it's up to me to try my hardest while I'm out there. It was a good experience. I learned a few things and I had fun." The fun began slowly as James patiently blended into the flow. Then, suddenly, he found his groove. He held his own against Jones and against Anderson. The 6-7 James slashed to the basket and he nailed jumpers from the outside. His play also included a swift shake and dribble around his defender where he went to the other side of the rim for a quick reverse slam that generated this response from Lucas: "We got to have him. We got to have him." Indeed. James switched teams and ran point guard for the Cavs. He displayed his point guard skills that included about six assists. His most impressive assist was an alley-oop pass to Jones for a dunk. "He's the most developed high school player I've ever seen and he has another year of high school," said Jones, while shaking his head and smiling. "He's very mature physically and mentally. Unlike most high school players, he wants to do more than just score. He likes to get everyone involved. He could play in the league right now." While everyone was amazed at James' display, it was all routine for Diop. Diop competed against St. Vincent-St. Mary as high school senior for Oak Hill (Va.) Academy two years ago. He and James have developed a friendship. "I know how good he is," Diop said. "He's very good, and he's going to play in this league. The only advice I give him is to continue to work hard and get ready because players in this league have read about him and they'll be waiting for him." That naswers all your questions. About all former high school players and how he's different. About the size of high school players. About the competition he dominates. About a coach's opinion of him AFTER he played against NBA players. About whether he's selfish. Listen, Like I said. I'm a Ming fan. But I'd put my money on Lebron James becoming mroe dominant than yao Ming every single time.
"LeBron feels he still has some learning to do, and he does. The potential is there, and that's something that will keep the fire burning." - Michael Jordan -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------On a Tuesday after school in October 1994, Frank Walker put a basketball in the hands of 9-year-old LeBron James for the first time. "It was in my back yard," said Walker, 41, and the father of Frank Jr., now a sophomore at SVSM. "LeBron had never played, other than just fooling around shooting and stuff like that, and Frank beat him, 21-5. But I knew then that he was going to be different." How? "His gift is that you can teach him something, and he catches on real quick," said Walker, snapping his fingers three times for emphasis. "Over the years, I learned you could show him something once or twice, where you would have to show everyone else four or five times. It's a blessing he has." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I haven't seen him play, but everyone I've come in contact with, people who know basketball, I've heard nothing but the greatest comments from them about his skills and explosiveness. He's a name that's unique and special among people in the basketball world." - Dick Vitale, ESPN college basketball analyst
Thank you Sane and jams3y - I have no idea what they hate LeBron for or why they are mad that no one is calling him a bust but when they actually see him play then I think they will understand why no one is calling him a bust. Panda just stop with the whole high school ball sucks thing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't forget that Jordan, Duncan and Shaq all went to high school. And the comparison of Wagner scoring a 100 and James not is totally moot. Wagner was not in a private Academy where he played other schools that specialized in basketball. That is what you do not understand. You are thinking about the 3A highschool down your road - granted they are not as good as the CBA. But go watch Oak Hill play and you will see some serious High School ball. These teams pay serious dollars to recruit from places like Nigeria and Croatia and all over north and south America. Then they play other private basketball schools and the games charge pricy admission - more than the CBA. The subs on these teams are almost all going to go to major college programs. The starters are going to be the next college stars. And when you have all the scouts and all the coaches and all the players looking at this one guy and saying this guy is the most amazing thing that they have ever seen not in the NBA then you know he is going to be very good. No one here is saying that Ming Sucks. I think Ming is a terrific baller. I watched the Canada game and the guy has serious touch. Just because I say LeBron is going to be good and that his level of competition is not low does not translate into I do not think that Ming is good and I think that his competition is low.
I am extremely excited about Ming. I remember thinking "Man if we could only get Ming". Then Francis got hurt and the rest is history. That being said, I would take Lebron over Ming anyday of the week. Kobe's skill, Magic's passing ability, and Jordan's will. I do not know about you, but that sounds like the best package...yes...of ALL time. Now that being said, I am EXTREMELY excited about Ming. Who knows... He has some serious skills himself.
