Yao again shows he's an MVP candidate http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/4375420.html (posted it anywhere already?)
Well, if Yao isn't your first choice, then obviously you think somebody else deserves the award more than Yao. Perhaps some of the people here who are upset at you are worried that your remarks might sink Yao's chances of ever getting another high award. After all, you are presumably one of Yao's fans -- and you say he doesn't deserve it. Now put yourself in one of the voter's shoes: "Well, lookie here. Yao's own fans are say he didn't deserve it. Maybe we shouldn't ought to give him another one." By the way, I withdrew from this thread since I thought you would too. Since you didn't, the deal's off. Look out.
Sure, that's what I said. But Yao deserved it more than, say, Kobe Bryant or Carmelo Anthony or many other superstars. Being a fan means wanting the player to improve and rooting for the player to be successful. I'd love for Yao to become the best player in the league. In that sense, I'm a fan. I don't think being a fan means blind adoration. Or wanting Yao to win every individual honor regardless of performance.
I can't believe I'm saying this. Yall know I'm a S-YOF, but I actually think Carlos Boozer got robbed this time, the POM thing. It just shows that good/great players in the league don't get recognized immediately.
Hardly. One thing is clear, the guy didn't first congratulate Yao and then say Yao doesn't deserve it.
Wanting a player to improve is one thing -- even the greatest athletes in history could stand to improve their games. You were saying something completely different, however: that somebody else deserved the POM award more than Yao. You really needed to justify that assertion, and you haven't, not really. So don't be surprised if some people (not me) are upset at you. They have good reason to be. True. But cutting down Yao without a solid, bulletproof justification is the opposite of being a fan.
OK basing on the link you now provide, you didn't make the mistake on the number, but you certainly didn't make it known in the beginning that you quoted some massaged data from an obscure source. My apology anyhow. There are several things to be discussed, unfortunately however, none is going to be in your favor. First, NBA games are played for 48 minutes, not played in such a way that teams are assigned for a fixed number of possessions, and whichever team scores the most points wins after all these possessions are used up by the said team. It's up to each team to control and/or set the tempo of the game to their advantage, and in reality this is part of the game. With these in mind, the massaged, per possession stats are borderline stupid and useless in the real world. Second, since the total turnovers by Duncan's team are lower (by your measure) than those by Yao's team, Duncan's individual turnover number stands out more prominently than that of Yao, relative to each team's total turnovers. No matter you like it or not, this is a fact not an opinion. Third, since you yourself brought up the notion that the Rockets run their offense through Yao more than the Spurs run through Duncan, Yao's high turnovers are more justified, if not excused. Intellectually dishonest may be overly harsh if you didn't do it intentionally but you are clearly biased in a discussion that's supposed to be objectively frank but not frankly obfuscatory. Uh, not a distortion but just an opinion based on my observation, whether you like it or not. Huh, what kind of logic is that? Saying A isn't B doesn't logically lead to saying C is B. For strictly individual contest, PER could be a better index but hardly an overwhelmingly superior indicator. Besides the simultaneous top-10 PPG (with high FG%) and RPG rankings, I suspect most in the NBA circle also take into consideration the impact of Yao on the Rockets team beyond those superficial +/- numbers. You dodged my question, but I have to ask you again, do you in real life sincerely congratulate a guy for something he doesn't deserve (or is not as deserving as someone else)? LOL ... I don't think I ever call you a troll on this board. And I hate to see you rapidly making a case for yourself in this thread. I still love your stats work.
Because teams generally prefer to play at a certain tempo, that means per possession stats are useless? I don't follow your logic, at all. What is a turnover? When a team ends an offensive possession without taking a shot. That's the definition. If you're going to compare how turnover-prone a team is, it's only common sense to examine the percentage of possessions that ended on a turnover. How good a free throw shooter you are isn't determine by the number of free throws you make per game; it's determine by your FT%. Similar idea. And if you think possession stats are useless, I guess you think Dean Smith was an idiot for using them? So what? Per 40 minutes, Yao is averaging 29 points, 2.1 assists, and 69% of his field goals are assisted. Duncan is averaging 25.4 points, 4.1 assists, and only 41% of his field goals are assisted. From that, I don't think you can say with certainty that Yao is getting more touches and has more opportunities to turn it over than Duncan. I would guess that Duncan handles the ball more frequently, actually. And, again, as a team the Rockets are more turnover prone with Yao than the Spurs are with Duncan. That's another thing I consider. If you think that's irrelevant, fine. I don't feel like arguing that point with you. I'm biased towards my position that Yao isn't as deserving as Dirk. When explaining my position, I'm obviously going to focus on the areas in his game which I felt held him back. And in defending Yao, you're going to focus on his strengths and the weaknesses of other candidates. But I don't call you "biased" for that, because it's a ridiculous charge given the context of the discussion. Your "opinion" is wrong, whether you like it or not. You mischaracterized the discussion, and you're clearly still confused. If PER shouldn't be considered because Player of the Month is not a PER contest, why is it OK to consider PPG and RPG when Player of the Month is not a PPG/RPG contest? Never said it was overwhelmingly superior (what does that mean?). But it's better. If you're top 10 in points and rebounds, chances are you're really good. Actually, you'd probably have a very high PER. But plenty of great players were never in the top 10 in scoring and rebounding. Michael Jordan? I didn't dodge your question. I don't respond to insults. And, yes, I do congratulate people even if I don't think they are most deserving. Particularly if they are a friend or someone who I admire. And particularly if they worked hard for it and they were amongst a select few most deserving out of a large pool of people. I presume, since you're asking this question, that you would not congratulate such a person? I guess we're just different that way.
I can make a case in more detail, but why should I? Most people here aren't interested and will probably just be offended. I had an opinion, which I expressed. If people disagree, they disagree. Why get so defensive over it? There is no solid, bulletproof argument when you're talking about which superstar has played "better." It's a fuzzy concept to begin with. Both players had excellent months, and were the best players on very good teams. The Mavs happen to be the best team in the league for most of the month, and they were at their best with Dirk on the court (and when he was off the court, for the month they were pretty bad). Further, the individual numbers seem to favor Dirk. Being totally objective, if I was giving out the award I would probably give it to him.
Sorry, but this is as about as pretentious and needlessly dismissive as this board gets. Not your finest hour. And all the talk about the levels and relative sincerity behind "congratulating" some guy most of you are never going to meet is just odd. Goofball stuff.
it's sad to see people bashing durvasa simply because he didnt agree with yao winning the POM. all these comments on how durvasa isnt a rockets fan because he doesnt like the league's decision regarding the POM are garbage. clearly they would rather he only follow the rockets and be closed minded and never comment on how good some of the other players are. newsflash, yao is not the only great player in the leage. he's not the best player either. he had an insane november, and won the POM. obviously some fans, including some yao fans, didnt agree with the decision. they obviously saw things in other great players that, in their opinion, surpassed yao's performance. so what? it means they're automatically yao haters? complete bs. stop trying to find yao hate where there isnt any. he's not perfect. (gasp!) posters who say that we should just accept useless trash like biased opinions just because we're in a rockets message board are just plain stupid, and thats probably the reason for their biases. we're not here to discuss how yao is the unquestioned leader of the world and can do no wrong. also realize that while durvasa's arguments may hurt some feelings, he's not aiming for that. its a fair criticism of yao, and should be met with an equally fair counter argument, which is what wnes and some others are doing. im sure they actually have something concrete to back yao up. anything else would be a waste of time. "you're a troll and you should leave the bbs", some of you think this actually achieves something. it doesnt. in the end, all these arguments make for an interesting thread, and posters should not be insulted for stating their opinions.
hey kelly, just wondering, what happened to your articles? all i see now are player rankings. what gives man?
