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Yao getting enough touches?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by porsche911, Jan 15, 2005.

  1. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Heh...let me explain the view point of the YOA (the extreme ones)...

    YOFs don't want the Rockets *just* win. They want YAO to be apart of those wins. If he's not contributing (by fault of his own or not) but rather causing some of the problems....well, they will push for blame (blaming the refs, the coach, or anyone else not named Yao). :( YOF don't want the Rockets to win. They want Yao to win. It's SELFISH on their part to blame others for Yao's problems and is actually arguing against the *team* concept (something that Yao is very much in favor of).

    So, 90% of Yao's problems are related to HIM! His heavy legs, slow mobility, short arms, hands of stone, and his mental frustration from the refs whose calls are a direct (and indirect) result of the aforementioned hindrances.

    Yao is on a 5-year plan. The expectations of his development will take longer than most impatient fans wanted (especially YOFs). Centers take longer to developed (compared to guards/forwards). Hakeem really bloomed in his 10th year. Yao may take 6 or 7 years to really get a handle on his game and his weaknesses. I think we need to lower our expectations a bit.

    Yao will be fine. He's a really good player right now. And he's getting invaluable experience learning the LOW POST game. No matter how much one hates the fact that we are not expanding Yao's game by having him shoot 18ft jump shots all day...we'll be glad that he's learned the hard-nosed-in-the-paint-grind-it-out-low-post-game!

    These are lessons that Yao will benefit from greatly later on in his career! And Yao hasn't seen anything yet since he hasn't really gotten deep enough into the play-offs. It gets rougher! He needs this experience! It will toughen him for the play-offs!

    So, Yao expanding his game will come in time (18ft jump shots and facing up/driving). But first thing is first. Post play first. It will pay off in the long run. He's has to improve on his balance, ball handing (holding on to the ball), rebounding technique, foot work, etc...There are too many weaknesses in his technique that lead him to turn the ball over, get the ball stolen, or just loose the rebound all together!

    Blaming the refs is the easy way out! It doesn't address any of his physical limitations that are REAL tangible problems! And no amount of ref rule changes will make Yao get faster, grow larger hands, grow longer arms and jump higher. He's a victim of his own body.

    This is why we are shifting the focus of the offense towards TMac, Sura, and Deke and will make future roster changes based on Yao's weaknesses. As most people know...fans want to win now! They are impatient. But, Yao's development will take longer than first predicted. Trying to force the ball into Yao's hands when he can't get into position in the first place (or hold on to the ball) is going against conventional wisdom. It's too risky right now. The margin of error is too great. Yao's must improve his technique and physically, then we'll give him the ball more.
     
    #61 DavidS, Jan 17, 2005
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2005
  2. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Charvo is a well-known LA/GS fan. Yao going to LA/Golden State will make Charvo very happy.
     
  3. SunsRocketsfan

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    well i cant speak for Yao, but I sure as hell wouldnt want to play with Kobe if i was in his shoes.
     
  4. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Member

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    I don't see how anyone can complain that Yao is not getting enough touches given his propensity in turning the ball over. Yao must have the weakest/worst hands and the slowest dribble in the league. How many times have we seen the ball swatted away when he has had both hands on the ball or stripped when he has put the ball on the floor. He has got to fix these weaknesses before anyone can complain that he doesn't get enough touches. The kid has like 3.7 turnovers a game, not exactly a statistic to encourage your teammates to pass you the ball in the heavy traffic and defenses that they throw at Yao.
     
  5. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Member

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    Great post, I don't think JVG has quite shifted the offensive focus to Deke, JVG brings Yao in for Deke for situations on the offensive end but what if the best team JVG could put on the floor was with Deke. Would/should the team cut Yao's minutes, not start Yao and risk endangering the relationship with Yao.
     
  6. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I don't think you can cut Yao's minutes anymore. Dikembe gives good effort at around 20 minutes a game. If Dikembe were to be extended into the 30 minute range, I doubt his effectiveness would still be there.

    This isn't about shifting the focus to Dikembe. It's about finding the roleplayer in the frontcourt who can best play alongside a guy like TMac.

    I said last year that Steve Francis would be best served by playing alongside a couple of strong, athletic frontcourt players. Yao and Mo were the exact opposite of players who fit that mold since rebounding, help defense, and shotblocking would be high on priorities for the big men. Anyone can see how Dwight Howard and Cato fit that mold especially Dwight.

    At the beginning of this season, I thought Yao would kill with TMac. I thought Yao would share equal duty with TMac like Kobe and Shaq did. The pendulum has swung far to TMac, and I have changed my opinion in that I think the big men playing alongside TMac should have the same attributes as the big men that play alongside Steve.

    Can that kind of team work? Can a team that is guard-oriented with a strong, athletic frontcourt win a championship? Look at the Pistons last season. Billups and Hamilton ran the show. Rasheed did a little low post, but he was never the focus of the offense unless there was some significant matchups. Rasheed and Ben Wallace combined to be a very strong rebounding and defense frontcourt machine.

    What fits with JVG's schemes on offense and defense? Strong, athletic front court players. JVG would have won with the Pistons last season too. The guy could have had a field day drawing up defenses utilizing the Wallaces. TMac is having his best year with JVG. TMac looks like an MVP candidate right now.

    I've climbed off the fire JVG bandwagon because I figure that JVG needs specific kind players to succeed with.

    1. mentally strong
    2. athletic
     
  7. Random.

    Random. Member

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    I don't think Sura is a ball-hogger. If you look at his number, he takes a completely random amount of shots depending on whether he's open often that game, or not. This is EXACTLY the kind of role player I'd want for my team, one that doesn't try to force things, and takes what he is given.

    As for Yao's development. I think the refs are holding him back, but also, and I mean this in a good way, Yao has already been better than most reasonable people ever thought he would be. 18 points, 8 rebounds makes him statisically better than most centers in the league and we know he's still getting harrassed by the refs, and he lacks aggression. Maybe it's good for Yao to be able to rely on his teammates instead of having to always be the #1 guy, at this stage in his career.
     
  8. _samoa_

    _samoa_ Member

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    Honestly, i begin to think if Yao will leave rockets. Obviously, if rox keep playing like this, the chance of going further after 1st round is slim.

    I feel strongerly if rox want to win championship thing, we should work out how to keep Yao and TMac active simultaneously, rather than TMac is the only slash we have.

    To do this, Yao should work harder to contest front and double, to decrease TOs, and meanwhile, the rest in the team should help him. Even if it means rox will lose some games. It's not the correct way to work things out if you leave one of your most important players to struggle alone...

    Those who are saying Yao's getting enough touches, do you believe TMac+Sura+Deke are championship caliber? if so, i have no more word. otherwise, please join the us to help building a more balanced team...a more active Yao will contribute more to rox. Yao has more oppotunities will help to padder his stas, but more importantly it will do good to rox in the long term!

    I think JVG is a smarter guy than me, hopefully he will have a solution to it. but unfortunately it seems the big man is walking away and away from us...

    TMac's Houston Magic, where will you go?
     
  9. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Like this?

    You mean winning ... beating good teams? :confused:
     
  10. _samoa_

    _samoa_ Member

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    i think you remember rox have beaten LAL with Shaq & Kobe several times last year, but they failed in the 1st round.

    if Yao cannot develop better, this team will stop at the 1st round.
     
  11. Axeman

    Axeman Member

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    The only way Yao is going to improve is to keep giving him the ball. The Rockets tend to go away from him as soon as they see that he is struggling. The same can't be said for T-Mac, where, even if he shoots 6 - 25 on a given night, he is still getting 25 shots.

    Yao is AT TIMES a dominant player. The only way to get him from AT TIMES to ALL THE TIME is to give him as many opportunities as possible to continue developing his game. The guy is only 23 years old. By the time he is 28 years old (which is when most superstars start reaching their prime) he will be unstoppable. That is IF the coaches continue developing him properly. Right now, I just don't see that.
     
  12. _samoa_

    _samoa_ Member

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    well said. the more touches he gets, the better he develops his game. and before he's steady i expect more beaten games. but i think it's the price rox should pay.

    unfortunately i didnt see that, it looked they were more likely to let the guy struggle all by himself. and this is why i feel Yao might leave. if your job means to get frustrated often, why not turn around to see other places?another boss might be a surprise, who knows?
     
  13. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    What I meant was that the team has been more TMac oriented compared to Yao oriented.

    As far as Deke. He's a bench player, yes. But at times JVG has put him in, in order to revive the offense (becaues Yao is sucking so bad; or gets into early foul trouble).

    Sometimes this is about match-ups (which it should be). But not every other game! Deke is probably wondering...."Hey, Yao. When am I going to follow you, instead of you following me?"

    Haven't you noticed that if Yao has a bad game (in the FIRST 2 minutes), the offense will stagnate. Then, JVG will put Deke in and presto! The offense is back!
     
  14. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    We beat LAL twice and they beat us twice, but so what? Success against 1 team is not on the same scale as success against many teams anyway, is it?
     
  15. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    He who shoots the ball makes a basket.
     
  16. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    the best place to improve his skill is on the court with ball. Of course more game lose. but do you think this team can be champ?
     
  17. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!! the best post I ever read here!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Axeman, I think you need to *be* the coach for a few days.

    You'll tell the players to *give the ball* to Yao. They do...Yao gets blocked....
    ...then, they try again, but this time he's fronted...24 second violation..next time they try and he dribbles the ball and it gets stolen....on defense....Yao picks up two early fouls....you look up at the score board and you notice that the team have wasted 4 possessions and you're down 12 points.

    SO you see, it's not as simple as "just give the ball to Yao." Sure, he'll get better with playing time. But there's also something called *winning*. If we waste possessions trying to get Yao practice -- at the expense of LOSING -- then we will NOT make the play-offs.

    You might say, "So what? Who cares about the play-offs? It's about Yao! Not the team's success. It's about teaching and developing Yao. Not the team. Forget about winning. That's not about Yao. Yao is more important than the team...."

    If you said those things....No more coaching job for Axeman. But hey! At least you got Yao some "touches." :rolleyes:

    Disclaimer: Touches = The ball touching Yao's hands, but not catching, but rather bouncing off his hands. Touches also can mean that the ball bounces off Yao's head because Yao wasn't paying attention to TMac driving the lane and making a no-look pass. Touches can also mean that he tries to get the rebound, but instead of grabbing the ball he tips the ball into the opponents hands. ;)
     
    #78 DavidS, Jan 17, 2005
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2005
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    no...you don't understand. see, if they lose, then it won't be yao's fault, anyway. it will still be JVG's...or maybe McGrady's. so they win either way!!! :D
     
  20. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    well then, if you ONLY happy with playoff, then why not find a fast-tempo center(don't mean trading). if Tmac continue to playthis level, Rox will go playoff easily
     

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