Who in their right mind can say Marbury is as much a streetballer as Steve Francis? Marbury can be the streetballer than Steve is, but he rarely brings it to the NBA court. Marbury has consistently been among the league leaders in assists and assist/to ratio. I don't think Marbury would be good for Yao, but definitely better than Francis.
Definetely agreed. I've watched Marbury ever since he was in Georgia Tech. He has court vision and the willingness to give up the ball as long as he trusts who he is passing it to. I htink Marbury was actually 2nd this year in assists.
Gosh, I don't know The problem is with the term "streetballer" itself. As far as I can tell, it means guard who likes to penetrate who hasn't won an NBA title. If not, then Kobe would be one.
I think you guys misread my post. I am not a huge Francis fan, that is obvious, but I reallly think that for Yao to breakout Steve has to be gone. Not because he is intentionally holding him back, or not passing the ball to him (though that is done, just not intenionally). No, it is because I think Yao defers to Steve as the leader of the team, and the one thing Steve is REALLY bad at is leading. Therefore, you take Francis out of the equation and you send a clear sign to Yao and the rest of the team that it is HIS team, and then and only then do I think he will respond. Sink or swim, IMHO, is the only way Yao breaks out. He is too respectful of players that were here before him. Just my opinion, and not hating on Francis at all, just don't think the 2 fit on the same style of team. DD
What's the "And 1" commercial when Marbury say's "I ball". Oh yeah, gets who sponsors one of those street ball tours.
How come nobody every uses the KG comparison. KG was a high schooler, yes, but is can easily be argued the Yao's transition to the NBA has been much much more difficult from a personal level. Check out the Big Ticket's rookie and sophmore year numbers. The first year they played almost exaclty the same number of minutes (Yao has 0.3 more per game). Yao averaged more points, boards and blocks (most important big man stats) and only 0.1 less assist per game with a higher field goal percentage. The second year, KG played a full 6 more minutes per game. Yet, Yao still averaged more points and boards per game, KG now has him beat on blocks (though with the extra 6 minutes) and Yao's field goal percentage is still higher (in fact, Yao's 0.522 field goal percentage is a full 0.19 % points higher than KG's best career average of 0.502, which is his only season over 0.500 and was accomplished last year). All that said, Yao clearly has some areas to work on: (1) as mentioned over and over, stamina - if Yao averaged KG's 38.9 mpg in his sophmore season he would likely have been a 20/10 player with over 2 block per game. (2) Stop bringing the ball down - if the big man ould manage to keep the ball up and not get stripped those two times a game on the offensive end and a few times on the defensive end he would have been a 20/10 player even with the fewer minutes.
Okay, those of you using the NBA ballers cover as definitive proof that Marbury is the ultimate street baller and / or more of a street baller than Francis. Stop. It doesn't make sense. Just because somebody wants to make some money putting their image in front of a product doesn't make them the ultimate anything. Why don't you try to judge by watching games? Name one thing Marbury does during games that's more street that what Francis does? By using your argument, then Ricky Williams (NFL street) and Michael Jordan (NBA Street, Vol. 2) are the ultimate street players too? Look neither Francis NOR Marbury are as street as most people think. However, I do think that Marbury is more disciplined on the court, more assists, less turnovers. I don't even like Marbury, he annoys me, but he never tries street crap on the NBA floor. One more thing. Just because you have a streetball reputation doesn't mean you can't be pass first and have a greater than 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. Ask Skip to my lou.
i've used that comparison before. best case scenario i think we might be able to expect KG's 4th year stats for Yao next year. maybe minus the assists. but all that's dependent on what happens with the team. different players though... Yao will never be KG. KG is all over the place, skying for boards, locking down the other team's best scorer. But in a sense that may be a good thing, KG doesn't really have an automatic post move. A good Yao in his prime comparison might be Kareem Abdul Jabbar a bit past his prime plus better defense.
Because Garnett compiled his stats at the age of 19/20, with no basketball experience beyond high school, whereas Yao's stats came at the age of 22/23, after playing professionally with China for several years. Compare Garnett, Duncan, Hakeem, whoever at 22/23 to Yao's stats. There is a huge developmental difference between a 19 year old kid and a 22 year old.
All right Yipheng, why don't you just define what a "streetballer" is. I think it is an entirely arbitrary term used to negatively connotate players, but maybe I am wrong. If you can articulate a definition of it then we will see. Then tell me if the following players are "streetball" players or non streetball players: Stephon Marbury Steve Francis Allen Iverson Kobe Bryant Vince Carter Tim Hardaway Mike Bibby Jason Williams Cuttino Mobley Isiah Thomas Magic Johnson Tiny Archibald Calvin Murphy Earl "the Goat" Manigault Connie Hawkins Vinnie Johnson Magic Johnson Mario Elie Kenny Smith Earl "the Pearl" Monroe As for what Marbury does that's more "street", Again, I don't know what your definition is. I'll guess though; maybe trying to turn the game into a 1 on 1 showdown because you're mad that the opposing point guard was the starter on the WC all star team instead of you (and then losing the game after failing to get your teammates involved) counts?
I could be wrong, but there are, I think, a lot more players who have succeeded in the NBA within a few years of coming out of high school than coming out of the Chinese league. Additionally, generally speaking, the larger the player, the later the development.
Man why are y'all always babying Yao? Steve Has to be gone for Yao to succeed. Poor Yao looks tired. Cuttino won't give Yao the ball. We need a pf to protect Yao. I have question for Yao? When will he step up and be the man. If Hakeem can develop next to Ralph (another big), I don't see why Yao can't develop with a pg who has sacrificed his offense to make room for Yao and wants to see Yao dominate. Steve ain't the problem.
So I guess Yao getting pushed out of the post by scrubs has nothing to do with it. I'm not hating on Yao or SF, I'm saying that both SF and Yao have to improve for this team to be successful. Ya'll are acting like its only the guards decisions to not throw down to Yao sometimes, but JVG is a strict coach and if he wasn't pleased with the guards not throwing down to Yao, he would show it. I don't know what JVG says in the practices and huttles. But I'm pretty sure that he tells the guards not to throw the ball to Yao if he doesn't have good position. JVG didn't complain once about Yao not getting enough touches, because he knows that if Yao doesn't have good post position, everything changes. Might it have something to do with guard play? Probably. Does it have something to do with Yao's strength and stability? 100% Yes.
The argument used to be that China's professional leagues couldn't even stand up to American High School basketball at the higher levels - now for some reason it's reversed. Mentally, it is impossible to argue that Yao's transition was not more difficult. Physically, the same can be said. KG was MUCH better prepared for the speed and athleticism of the game than Yao was. Yao may have been slighlty more physically imposing, though barely so, if at all, especially given the lack of weight training techniques in the Chinese leagues.
answer my original post. your reply made no sense and in no way tried to answer my original post. let me summarize my questions for you. 1) how can you use Marbury's appearance on a game cover, which is more or less a business move / marketing ploy, as definitive proof that he is more a street baller in the NBA than Francis? and you then ask me for a definition, but I wasn't the one that started the argument. you made this argument first in the "marbury over francis on olympic team" thread in the NBA forum. 2) i asked you to name one thing that you've seen Marbury do during an NBA that's more "street ball" than what Francis does. you want me to define the term. how about you come up with any definition you want. use any definition for "street baller" you want and make an argument, based on game footage, that Marbury is more of a "street baller" than Francis. can you do that?
Of course, you're right on both points. But clearly part of the reason a teenage typically takes a couple of years to develop in the NBA is his lack of physical maturity (still growing, filling out, etc.), a difficulty that a 22 year old (think college senior) doesn't have. The thing is, we know how it works now with high school players going to the NBA, like McGrady and Garnett. And we know how it works with (non-Euro) foreign players coming to the NBA after going to college here, like Hakeem and Dikembe. Those players acquired skills in college to help them progress to the pro game. When it comes down to it, whether they have developed in the NBA or through the college ranks, nearly every player has developed to their peak or close by the age of 24. I guess the unanswered questions are, what is the difference between playing in Chinese professional league and the NCAA, and how far behind the traditional developmental track that puts a player, and whether that ground can be regained in time. I hope those answers meet the Rockets', and our, expectations.
i've said this before... but Moochie Norris would be an All-star, MVP caliber player in the CBA, and as incredibly saddening that is to me, it's also true. therefore, I believe that competitive experience gained in the CBA is somewhere between high school and college in the US. obviously the average CBA player is better than a HS player, but the lack of weight and conditioning, the worse level of competition, especially in big men, makes CBA not as good as a primier 1-A college program. also Yao has had to deal with learning a language and culture, which TD did not have to do, and Hakeem had longer to do. your development is always limited by your competition, and TD had to go up against some good centers in college, whereas it was just too easy for Yao in China. Yao has developed faster than most high school big men. Brown, Chandler, Curry, KG, etc. But obviously he has developed slower than a 4 year college player like TD. however, now that Yao has some NBA experience under his belt. I would say his basketball exposure, opportunities for coach, and weight training should be on par with TD coming straight out of college. if you disregard the cultural thing, which Yao seems to be pretty well adjusted to by now. here's the measuring stick: next year Yao should be performing at the level of TD's rookie campaign. and if he doesn't, which he might not, then well it's because Duncan is better.
I didn't know those NFL games were called, Madden's sandlot football, or flag football or whatever the equivilant to "street ball" would be. All those other games or based on the actual leagues while the game that Marbury is on the cover of is actually based on "streetball" so your analogy doesn't hold water.
