Why are you assuming that these people weren't basketball fans before Yao? Because they are asian? If that's it, I think it is you who has the problem. If you didn't know... the Bay Area is almost 40% asian.
If you didn't know, you're wrong. The Bay Area has about half that. 18.9% asian, according to the latest US Census data. County...........2003 population % asian total asians Alameda..................1,461,030 20.4% 298,050 Contra Costa...........1,001,136 11.0% 110,125 Marin........................ .246,073 4.5% 11,073 Napa..........................131,607 3.0% 3,948 Solano........................412,336 12.7% 52,367 Sonoma......................466,725 3.1% 14,468 Santa Clara..............1,678,421 25.6% 429,676 San Mateo...................697,456 20.0% 139,491 San Francisco..............751,682 30.8% 231,518 Totals.......................6,846,466 18.9% 1,290,717
Whatever... is it unheard of that Asians can be basketball fans? That is what I'm getting at... the assumption that no Asians were basketball fans before Yao... There were the same amount of Asians at the GSW that there normally are. Besides... San Francisco/San Mateo, + the east bay (Contra Costa, Alameda, Santa Clara) is what the central bay area is made up of... and that is where all the Asians are. Places like Cupertino, Fremont, Milpitas which are in Santa Clara County are more than 50% asian. Places like Solano, Sonoma are the boonies...
ok i'm also going to comment in this thread(altough i know i shouldn't touch it with a 18 feet long pole). IMHO alot of people overreact way to fast when it comes to racisme. People want to see racisme in comments, i do not know why but alot of people are way to sensitive. IMHo racism is in the eye of the beholder. I do not care of anybody calls me a white tall stiff basketbal player.(BTW i'm not a stiff). Who cares what those people think. they are not importent to me. and i think those people are not importend to you all. so Why do alot of people get offended when people they do not even know say something about them that is not true: like all Black people are criminals, or all chinees people are sensitive or all white people are cheap. (note i said they were not true, so i do not want to see one line of me quoted where the poster tells me i'm a racist)Who cares if others think that. ok now for something i will probabley get flamed for: Black people Asian people(or is that offensive?) and white people are different from each other. Is one better? No. but are they different yes. For instance: in general Black people are more Athletic then White people. Is this a comment about differance in race? Yes. Is this a racist comment? No. Does this mean there is no Athletic white man, or no unatletic black man? No. Why do people get so sensitive about differances? If it is clear there are differances, just respect it from each other. There is also a differance in Chistian people and atheists. or a differance in tall or short people. If it is about height there are no talks about racisme. Once again i'm not saying that tall people are better then short, or that black people are better then asian. they are just different. and agreeing that there is a differance doesn't make you a racist. Please people do not overreact.
Sam I had one of my underlings perform this analysis for me. According to the data he came back to me with, yes they do. If you take your two mentioned counties out, the % rises to 20.4%. That should put your mind at ease. That 2nd year associate at your firm who called you a dummy was dead on. Don't ask stupid questions in the future.
What doesn't put my mind at ease is the fact that you're posting on this message board right now. Shouldn't you be over at the Home for Lonesome Gametes, priming the pump in order to plant the seed for the next generation of littletexxxes?
U are white, right? if that's the case, i totally understand what you are saying. However, because you are whilte, there's a chance that you probably will never have to deal with racisim on a regular basis. it's easy for you to say who cares about what others think about you, and things in that nature. In real life, you couldnt' help but care because of dignity and pride. BTW, if you equate someone calling you a white tall stiff b-ball player with racism minorities are go through every single day, you must be kidding!!
I'm not going to bash you for racism but I think you're making some huge generalizations here. How do you explain the vast amount of European and South American Basketball players who racially would be considered white? For that matter if Blacks were in general more athletic then our Olympic team consisting of mostly blacks would've won the Gold followed closely by African teams instead of getting beat by European and Argentinian teams mostly made up of whites. Genetic studies have shown that there are more genetic differences within races than there are between races in general. A lot of the differences have much more to do with culture and access to nutrition and health care.
Definition of Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed Look, if you ain't Chinese and a bunch of Asain people like to watch Yao...then you have no choice but to accept that as a FACT. Why don't you spend your time trying to understand this fact, rather than demonstrating your ignorance by trying to discredit it. How does the old saying go..."walk a mile in my shoes." I always have to wonder when somebody questions why a group of people "feels" a certain way. Where do you get off telling me how I should feel about something of which you know nothing about? If I want to cheer for Yao beacuse he is Asain, so be it. That's my right as a human being and you are moving into dangerous territory imposing your beliefs on why somebody should or should not like something. The American Constitution was implemented to protect against these types of attitudes from overrunning the country. FYI: You are free to beleive and say what you want but you are not free to impose your beliefs on other people.
i will first respond to you and later today to Sishir Chang. i do not have alot of time. I'm white I agree with you that i do not experience real racisme. I know it is a terrible thing and i know it happens way to much. (ofcourse people calling me a white tall stiff b-ball player is not racisme). I was just saying that some people see racisme even though it is not there. The fact that people do not get a job because of their skin collor is terrible. And believe me i hate that very much. i know i have never experienced it so i do not know how it feels if it happens to me. That said. i think there is a differance between real racisme, and the things Some people here call racisme. When you cannot enter a club because of you skin collor that is real racisme. When somebody here says Oriental (when referring to Chinees people) that is not racisme. Or if people say that Yao is a non agressive person, and they say they think it is because of his culture, that is not racisme. If people say that Serge Zwikker(one of the best ducth basketbal players ) has no footwork because he is used to walking on wooden shoes, then that is not racisme it is humor. All i'm saying is that some people see racisme where there is no racisme. And that is a shame. (In holland there are alot of people who are racists, and i can't stand it) i hope you understand what i was trying to say.
i was not saying that Black people are better basketball players. i was saying that in general Black people are more athletic. If i look around me, the people who are more athletic then me(i'm pretty athletic for my size) are all black people. If you see highlight dunks of people flying through the air they are mostly black people. That does not mean black people are better basketball players, because basketball is not a game where only athleticism is important.Ofcourse there are very athletic White or asian people, but IMO in general Black people are more Athletic. Ofcourse there are things that white and asian people are better in. But i'm not gonna get into that.
Arno_ed; And I would say you're not looking hard enough. In America in certain sports blacks dominate such as track and field and basketball while in many sports that require just as much athletic ability whites dominate like gymnastics, soccer, and winter sports. Just because you look around and see a lot of blacks dunking doesn't necessarily translate into that blacks are overall more athletic than whites or other when you look at the Olympics and you see whites, Latinos and Asians dominating in sports that require just as much athletism to vault off the pommel horse, clear high jumps, pole vaults and outrun the defense on a Soccer pitch. This has much much more to do with culture, nutrition and access to facilities. Consider how China now has NBA players an Olympic medalist in the 110 M hurdles shows that with access and proper training that will trump any supposed racial advantage.
There is a difference between racism meant to be hateful and racism out of ignorance. You're making an argument for intent which is that when someone says something that they don't mean to be hurtful which is understandable but at the same time that could be racist out of pure ignorance. Ignorance of course isn't as bad being deliberately hurtful but I don't think ignorance should get a pass either. For example the use of the term "oriental" while not outrightly racist does have implications of inferiority like the term "negro" for blacks thats why the preferred term is "asian" We had a big debate here last year over the term "Chinaman" which actually is an outrightly derogatory term on par with "chink" but many don't realize that since they presume its just means "man form China". Of course "Heb" is just short for "Hebrew" and 'darkie' is just a dimunitive for someone who's really dark but neither of those terms would be acceptable for someone whos Jewish or Black. Steve Kerr when he referred to Yao as "Chinaman" wasn't being deliberately racist but was being ignorant about the racist connotations of the term and once aware of it rightly apologized for making that mistake.
Arno, racism cannot be strictly determined by verbiage. Racism can only be determined by the heart. Since we cannot see into people's heart, we have to make conclusions based on verbiage and context to determine the underlying intention. Saying Yao is culturally soft very well may be a racist statement depending how the individual intended that statement. Also, racism is usually born out of ignorance, not necessary a direct intent to attack. So to stereotype all Chinese people as passive can also be a form of racism if that statement is rooted in unfactual ignorance. Maybe this is a bad example...I'm just illustrating that categorizing racism is rarely obvious. Don't be so quick to paint things with a broad brush.
Wouldn't the term Oriental refer to someone specifically from the Orient while Asian would refer to anyone from the continent of Asia? People in Much of Russia are Asian, but not Oriental. One problem might be that the Chinese are not technically Oriental though (the definition I have seen is Asia south of the Himilayas plus the Malay archipilago, basically SE Asia). East Asian is probably the most accurate way to go, if you want to encompass the group most people are referring to when they say Asian or Oriental (SE Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Mongolian). Interestingly, I think Oriental was initially seen as offensive by those who do not like the Eurocentric way of looking at the world (Asia being east of Europe). As someone who finds the term Oriental offensive, what do you think of the term Occidental? As an aside, I think it is funny that many Native Americans actually prefer the term Indian to Native American, kind of a backlash against political correctness I guess. But that is really tangential to this discussion, hence the aside I guess. As for the thread topic, I think people can follow a team for whatever reason they want. I don't think someone is any less or worse of a fan if they catch on to a team because of some personal choice rather than by living in the city where the team plays. Then again, I don't pull for ANY of my home teams, being a California boy and following the Yankees, Rockets, and Buccaneers. I also don't always go for America in the Olympics, where Svetlana Khorkina captured my attention. Maybe I am just weird.
Even an angry asian man like myself knows that there are inherent differences between races. People of different races react differently to certain diseases, medications, etc. There is no denying that blacks probably have an advantage in many types of athletic events. However - when we get into these sorts of debates, it seems to me (being an angry asian man), that Asians get the sh*t-end of stick. We are generally perceived as weaker and meeker than the other races. And it is generally acceptable to bring up these points. It is even acceptable to some to condemn Asians who root for Asian athletes. Nothing is noted about blacks who embrace Jackie Robinson or Tiger Woods (who looks black). However, to bring up statistical evidence of our extraordrinary performance in IQ tests is considered taboo. To claim that Asians are genetically predisposed to be weaker than non-Asians is ok. To theorize that there may be some correlation between genetics and our perceived superior brain function - is however, considered racist and taboo. I'm not claiming that Asian are genetically more predisposed to high brain-function. However, if people are going to make the claim that we are physically inferior - I'm going to point to the IQ tests. I refuse to accept the theory that the people of my race are inferior to others SISHIR - I apologize for bashing your post. After rereading it, it made sense. Perhaps I have not yet mastered all the vagaries of the English language. I always like to read yours and SamFisher's posts. Even though I frequently disagree with you two on the political stuff, I know that you two are very well-read and insightful people.
Is this correct? I've always known that Asians have outperformed on things like the SAT and grade point averages in the US, but I wasn't aware that it extended to IQ tests. I find this very interesting. Do you have a link to any sources?
He told you what the term Oriental refers to. Why are you challenging it? That's another thing that gets me is this political correctness debate. I get a kick when people come to their own conclusions of whether a term is offensive or not. If you really want to know, just ask a person who is targeted by that term. Who are you to tell me what I should/should not be offended by? You can't control what offends people but you can control what you say. Now if you don't care if it offends people, well that takes us straight towards racsim.
two points First, people have mentioned but I'll reiterate, there are two types of racism, active and passive. Active racists are obviously racist, easy to pick out. Passive is less so, they might not even know they are being racist. Now is ignorance an excuse? sometimes, but from a comparative example, murder is a greater crime than involuntary manslaughter, but they are both crimes and both have the same result. Second, one of the theories of genetic differences between whites and blacks in America is that blacks generally seem to have superior athletic capabilities because slaveowners bred the biggest and strongest slaves. Blacks in Africa, however, while athletic in different ways, do not have the same strengths as many of the black athletes in the US. Could be nature or nurture, who knows, but there is some evidence to show that the black athlete is stronger today because of white slave owners in the past.
