You're right, Mao could have been responsible for the deaths of tens of millions or it could all be a big misunderstanding. *yikes* I don't care what paintings China puts on its walls but when you decry political speech against China, as Chinese did for weeks as the torch was protested around the world, on the basis that the Olympics is to be non-political and then you use photo ops of a Communist figurehead, a man responsible for more death than anyone in the last 100 years then you should be ready to hear about it. That picture is sickening. It's not much different than the Soviets posing their athletes in front of Stalin or the Germans posing their athletes in front of Hitler. It's a total abuse of the spirit of the Olympics and it's shameful propaganda. The reporter took a picture. China picks the route for the torch, not the press. China gives the press credentials, not the West. China determines everything here, not the West. The paranoia around here seems to know no bounds.
There is certainly a level of propaganda in western media. But our sources are not just media - there are tons of books, written by historians of both American and Chinese decent. Accounts from Mao's personal physician and others close to him. Sadly, inside of China, were information is tightly controlled, don't you think the PRC is going to paint a positive image of the guy they have a massive picture of hanging right there? Look, if you really want to know, I bet you could find the truth. But like I said in the other thread - it's probably more important for you to figure out what Mao was than for us. Mao to us is just another "mass murderer". I'd be curious as to know how Chinese in China have come about in formulating their opinions on Mao and how they know the west is wrong about him.
Since you are too stupid to know better, let me explain it to you. At best, Mao was criminally negligent. Doesn't make it any better for the people who lost their family, but that by definition DOESN'T make him a mass murderer as Stalin or Hitler. The only reason you'd think of him as one is because your pathetic English skills, a language you supposedly speak. Secondly, the reason the Beijing organizers picked the route is not because so Yao could run under Mao's picture, it's because Tiananmen just happens to be right on the gasp, all important central axis of the city. Also on the axis would be the Forbidden City as well as, gasp, the Olympic grounds. Running through Tiananmen Square would not only showcase downtown Beijing and but is also the shortest (and safest route). The only reason you have a problem with the route is because you are a moron who's too stupid to know better.
My my, we are not talking about the physician that has long been discredited are we? Gee, and here I thought the Chinese have a positive image of the guy because he kicked out the foreign invaders. My bad. You definitely are right there. I mean, surely people in the west, reading couple of biased op eds, know better than the Chinese, who actually lived through the mess. Definitely got a point there. And also, next time, you might want to look up the definition of "murderer." It's actually quite simple. Because they are.
i just had a talk with my grandma's younger brother a couple of month ago. he asked me what's my thought on the chairman. i said, there are centainly some wrong things that he did, but overall, the good is greater than the bad. how much better, that's debatable. and then i said, there are people that just don't like him. and he turns around and said, ya, i'm one of those people. then he said, what happened in the later part of his life basically was a big mess. he said, before 1950, the chairman was one of the greatest leader in the chinese history. but what happened after 1950, canceled it out. of course, he doesn't like foreigners telling him what's right or wrong.
Are you an idiot or what? WHO is using the painting as the background in the picture? WHO? the western reporter from AP. A picture can be taken by many many angles, it was him who chose the painting as the background! That's AP who is blending politics into Olympics. it's shameful propaganda. exactly, Shame on AP. here is another masterpiece of how AP dragging politics into Olympics: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808...ceremony_22;_ylt=ArQ_VjLz7KxxvHxaupeeMKmSFs0F when they are replorting the openniong ceremony of the Olympic in Beijing: This is a shameful propaganda. it is AP. Do they have to make their living on politics or what? Are they just a tool for brainwashing? it is pretty clear what AP is.
The Korea war in the 1950s, the wars to free Tibetans, the wars against KMT leftovers and bandits, the set up of education, medical, economy systems from zero start, the escape from Russia, joining UN, setting up friendship with Japan and USA, development of nukes, .... Those are big moves. I dont know how can they be canceled out or forgotten. The "canceled it out" theory was from Deng. You who Deng is. enough said.
So in Tiananmen crowded with people you expect the reporter to move around to take an angle shot where Mao isn't in the background as Yao comes through the gate? Seriously the Mao portrait is smack dab above the gate it would be impossible to take a front on picture of Yao holding aloft the torch without the Mao portrait.
I believe most Chinese are well aware of all of the pain Mao caused but as I said in the other thread its a mistake to simplify Mao down to just being a mass murderer. There is a lot more to Mao's legacy and for all of the acknowledged evil that even the Chinese will admit too he did do some important things for China. As I said before there wouldn't be a modern China without Mao.
I feel sad for your IQ. are you saying that Chinese can not get information on China, we have to rely you westerns to get information about ourselves? You got your information through the the words printed on medias like AP, CNN or BBC. We got our information through what we saw, what we experienced, what we lived for or died for, what more than 1 billion people have seen, experienced, lived and thought for several generations in recent 100 years. who should we trust on the matter of China and Mao? You? will you keep your mouth shut?
I know why you feel ironic. I feel very proud though. Mao saved the million of slaveries and kicked the Lamas out of Tibet. Mao secured 1/6 part of China which has been a part of China since 1200s. Mao drove USA, UK crazy even today by doing this. that a victory in itself.
I am WOWed by your wisdom. too crowd to change the angle of a camera? never heard a more sorry excuse than this one. How about focus on Yao only? Yao is not as tall as the gate.
and what were your experiences? Did you travel around China throughout the 30's, 40's, and 50's? And do you think you'll get the truth about Mao from the Mao founded gov't that totally controls all the media you are exposed to? How did you know the lives of those other 1 billion people?
But how much pain? I mean, most estimates are 40-70 million, and conservative ones are at 20 million. Mao may have done a lot of other things as well, but considering the state of China when he died, don't you think a lot of others could have done a much better job or at least equivalent without the bloodshed? I mean, I just don't agree with the idea there wouldn't be a modern China without Mao. Look at how far Hong Kong and Taiwan went without Mao. Imagine if all of China was like that. I'd say without Mao, China would already be the world economic superpower - far dwarfing the U.S. and Japan combined. But that's my opinion on the subject, and I know this is a sensitive subject to many Chinese, so I am not going to push the point as I don't want to cause a lot of anger.
that's why we need to look at the bigger picture and put it in longer time frame. Don't forget, Chinese are much more aware the pain caused by USA, UK, Russia, Japan. that kind of pain is carved on the bones of every Chinese. it is the pain that you westerns love to ignore and forget. When you had a cancer, you wont blame the surgery that removes the cancer.
what I was saying is that Chinese people can judge Mao more fairly than all of you westerners. All kinds of the judgment ,from God to evil, have already been given by different generations of Chinese people and will go on. His painting is still on the gate even his theory is abandoned. Deng can exaggerate his mistake but he had to keep saying Mao's achievements; Mao is respected by young generations. he is missed by older generations. Mao is hated by Westerns even those never knew anything about China, him or communism. so far so good.
Hongkong went to China. Taiwan is worse than China now and they are heading to China. China started from zero to now and is still going forward with huge momentum. with KMT ruling, I believe China could also be modernized except China wont have Tibet, wont have xinjiang, won't have nuclear weapons, won't be able to say anything to USA, and would host USA military bases, would be living like Iraqis, would well be the battle field of USA vs Russia, would have much more deaths on the road to the modern world.
