By the way, I am a Laker fan. And I WANT to see Shaq over Yao. Heck, I would like to see all 5 starters to be Lakers. However, I will vote Nash at the point, Kobe at the shooting guard, Shaq at the center, Duncan at the power forward and Garnett at the small forward. The choice for Nash is because he is the soul and heart of that team. Without Nash, that team is like a plate of loose sands ... I could change my mind. If the Spurs get the best record at the break, I would like to vote for Parker. If the Lakers get the best record I will vote for Payton. I am pretty firm on the other choices.
So, if Yao's team does better than Shaq's team of hall of famer's, that wouldnt influence your vote at all? If this scenario came to fruition, then it would appear that Yao elevated the games of his teammates while Shaq did not. It's "stupid" to only care about stats.
DAMN this thread got fulll FAST! When it comes to Yao people will jump on it quicker than quick BUT i think this thread is dumb and should b closed ALLSTAR game is for the fans and there for is by the fans and Yao has every right to be the starter in it if the fans feel so
RiceDaddy7 sounds like a regular member here who is just trying to stir the pot/be a troll under a new anonymous member name.
You said it right there youself. The coaches vote for the bench players, but the fans vote for the starting five. Both Yao & Steve were voted as the starters because fans like to seem them more than to see Shaq. End of the story. --daoshi
True. historicaly all star appreance is never a valid critiera to evaluate a player. MVP, Championship, All-NBA team matter.
I'm back! Okay, Bill Laimbeer is notorious for having bad character. There was a reason the Detroit Pistons in the early 90's and late 80's was so hated. Gary Payton trash talks 10 times worse then Shaq. If I may throw in Reggie Miller, I would too. The fact is, some people that are good basketball players are not always good people. I'm a good person, you're probably a good person, does that make us great basketball players? Don't be ridiculous. In fact, Shaq does a lot of good things. A lot of people are blinded by his racist Yao comments last year, but you don't ever hear Shaq raping people. Which leads me to Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant is top 10 in the NBA, he is accused of rape ( not going to say he did it or not...just accused, which is bad enough ). Rasheed Wallace is a bad apple, but he's a good bball player. Now let us look at Juaquin Hawkins and Moochie Norris. They're among some of the best and charitble players in recent Rockets history, but that doesn't make them better basketball players then Kobe Bryant. It just makes them better people. Anyway, as I said, and you agreed, character does not always have relation to basketball skills, and therefore, should not be used as a big argument whether or not it reflects someone's basketball skills.
This ironic. I come here posting my first opinion, get attacked, and all of a sudden I'm a " threat to this board ". I am not spamming, I am merely stating my opinion that is unpopular, but related to the Rockets. If it is an old argument, I wouldn't know because, GASP, I'm *new*. For you to demote someone you disagree with to another board leaves a bad impression among this board. Boards should be about discussion. If people end up disagreeing that's fine, but don't demote them to other boards. Thanks for the welcome mat.
I'm glad to see you're able to see the difference " want " and " what should be ". As a fan, I want the Rockets to go 82-0 every season. But I'm not going to put faith that they'll go 82-0. I wonder how people would feel if that was the topic. Would they demote me to a Lakers board? Anyway, thanks for a neutral reply...here are my thoughts on who should be starting West All-Stars: F Tim Duncan F Dirk Nowitzki C Shaquille O'Neal G Kobe Bryant ( if he doesn't get jailed ) G Steve Francis Of course, this can all change come All-Star time. It's still fun to speculate. By the way, let me twist this topic a little in the Rockets favor. I really, really feel Cuttino Mobley should be an All-star this season. If his productivity continues the way it has, he should be an All-Star. If the All-Star was a total popularity contest, as most of you imply that it should be, then guys like Mobley would never have a chance to be an All-Star. You'd see Penny Hardway be an All-Star because of popularity over Mobley. Think about it.
1. at the all star break shaq and yao could have similar numbers. and with a team that consists of kobe, gary, and karl who is more important to their team. at least start an informed topic BECAUSE YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT THEIR NUMBERS WILL BE!!!!! 2. what the hell is this. neither player is in their prime. do you even watch basketball????? let me quote you "i think you see some flaws in your logic. can you?" who's logic is flawed ?? Go home and never come back
Your logic is flawed, my friend. Let us say that the Lakers end being the number 2 seed come All-Star time. And the Rockets are the first. Yao ends up, say 14-15 ppg. This doesn't mean he doesn't contribute. It just means he wasn't the main anchor. It means that Steve and Cuttino was. Now if Shaq was the leading scorer and the main reason the Lakers made it as number 2, then Shaq should deserve the starting spot over Yao, because Shaq did more work, was under more pressure. It's only " stupid " to judge solely on the seeding. Individual players should be judged based on a combination of team seeding and their contribution to it. This isn't like Shaq's Lakers are the tenth seed and he scores 40 ppg. If that was the case, then I'd definately say Yao.
Threads should be closed if it was full of spam and/or unrelated posts. This shouldn't be closed because majority of the people disagree.
This is your logic: - Rocket players should be in the All-Star game because they are Rocket players. Any disagreements is wrong dispite if the other player is clearly better. - I was referring to Jordan and Maxwell in their primes. I probably know more basketball ( especially Rockets trivia ) then you ever will in your lifetime so don't even go there. Let me give you a more clearer example: - I think Tim Duncan is a better player then Mo Taylor. - I think Gary Payton is a better player then Moochie Norris. If you see a flaw in those two statements, please do share in why you think that way.
Okay, now that nobody is replying for the moment, let us all catch up to what I'm trying to say. Let's start from here... There is a difference between " wanting " and being realistic/giving respect. Back when the Rockets played the Jordan Bulls, I wanted the Rockets to win every game. However, at the back of my mind, I acknowledged that Jordan was a great player. To say this is not wrong, just as to say Shaquille O'Neal at this point in time is better then Yao is not wrong. It doesn't make me any less of a Rockets fan. Don't tell me to go home. Don't tell me to go away. We all cheer for the same team. If you want to talk then let us rationize, but let us keep the " get out of here " threats to a minimal. We're not Celtic fans. We're a more civilized group of people then that. At least, in the Toyota Center, that's what it appears to me. It's okay to give other players respect and be loyal to your team at the same time. Don't prosecute people because they disagree with you.
You're not comprehending my point. I didn't argue that good character = good basketball player and bad character = bad basketball player. Your argument that people with good character don't make good basketball players is totally off the topic, and you're arguing with yourself on that one. Back to the topic. First of all, your definition of bad character is apparently different from mine. By bad character, I mean somebody who is lazy, unreliable, and/or engages in behavior on or off the court that is detrimental to himself or others. Just because Bill Laimbeer played physically, and Gary Payton and Reggie Miller talk trash, do not mean that they have bad character. They have all been hardworking, reliable players who didn't have unexcused tardiness or absences, and they never broke any team rules or the law as far as we know. My point is that bad character can, and often do, affect a basketball player's ability to perform. And players who have had past records of such behavior are more likely to behave similarly in the future, thus compromising their ability to play to their full potential. Shaq's character did affect his ability to play last season, as he held off surgery way too late to be ready for the season. This is unreliable behavior that ended up keeping him off the court and hurting his team. Since character does not change overnight, Shaq is more likely to engage in similarly unreliable and detrimental behavior in future, which should be taken into account for evaluating how valuable a baseketball player is. In fact, many GMs will tell you that before signing a player to a long-term contract, you have to make sure that the player has 1) ability, 2) durability, and 3) CHARACTER. Your investment is in dire danger if you overlook or misjudge any of the three. Many GMs have learned the hard way about #3.
RiceDaddy7 You are TrickyDaddy from the last season, aren't you? Please! Leave us a break. You're the biggest YAO BASHER I've even seen since that ESPN board ***** (If i'm not mistaken, that's YOU too) Get a better nickname next time to be a basher.
Okay, then you're talking about work ethic. Often times, when you are speaking of ' bad character ' people will assume you are talking about their capacity for selfishness. Judging my that, I wouldn't say Shaq is among the worst in work ethic ( Derrick Coleman and Eddie Griffin among the league leaders in that ), but you are correct in saying Shaq doesn't try as hard. If Shaq tried harder, he would've completely dominate this era the way Chamberlain did. But because he doesn't, the league benefits in that they have a chance. So on that, you're correct. Still, at this point, and this year, Shaq is retaining to top form, and even though it's only been 6-9 games per team, if this continues up to the All-Star break, and assuming Yao doesn't score 30 points on 10 straight nights, I'd say in terms of deserving, Shaq is the better center. Does this make sense?
Oh, and kryten128, Before you misunderstand, last year Shaq deserved to be ousted by Yao out of the starting center spot. Shaq was lazy last year and his team was suffering because he was hurt. However, because it's another season, it's a clean slate for him. He hasn't hurt his team this year and he's working hard ( well, at least pretty hard ). Shaq looks good this year. I still hope the Rockets beat the Lakers in all their meetings though.
