I am hoping you are not one of those posters who will not listen to logic or use facts. No one was sending Yao to the Hall of Fame- but he is definitely going to be one of the great centers that played the game. True there were people Like Wilt who will always towere over EVERY center that played this game. If you dont go back to Bill Russell and Wilt- and say start from the Kareem Jabbar era- Do you realise ONLY 2 Centers have averaged the so called 3 Blocks "Gold standard" you are referring to ( one of them is at 2.99). The rebound average is 12 or less ( for kareem it is 11.2, David 10.6, Hakeem 11.1 and Shaq 12) Points wise Kareem is at 24.6 - that was the highest till Shaq came Along, and is averaging 26.7 Now let us look at Yao- They guy comes from a totally alien culture and average less than 12 Attempts a Game for the first 3 years. This year he will max out at about 15. Most of the greats in the list average a minimum of 17 Attempts and some had more than 20 attempts a game. ONLY recently has Yao been given the benefit of doubt on fouls ( either his own or against others). And talking about Rik Smits- his career record is 14.8 PPG/ 6.1 RPG/1.28 Blocks- anyone who even refers to Rik Smits when talking about yao is not credible Let us wait till YAO gets to 20 Attempts a game, and each year he will improve on rebounds and block shots. BY the time he is ready to hang up I expect him to exceed David Robinson and perhaps even Dream ( not in Block Shots- Yao just does not have the vertical mobility). I still think for him to be talked about in those terms he needs to win a Minimum of 2 Rings. Nothing has been achieved yet- but only a jaundiced cynic cannot acknowledge the way he is shaping up ( not just recently). The one thing YAO should never change is his humble nature. I dont think you guys even appreciate how big a responsibility he has representing a billion people.
Let's see, Hakeem/Kareem/Shaq/Wilt are best centers ever played the game. Robinson and Ewing are great players, not because I said that, what do I know? Coaches, past players, current players, analysts, and lots of fans out there said that. If you say Yao is ALREADY a great player, you need to add all your 4 paragraphs as fine print disclaimer. Because of the rule change, he can't have those offensive numbers as Robinson and Ewing; because of lacking of great PF, his defensive numbers are not as impressive as those two. Moreover, because of his size, he can never be at Dream's level. NOw, I am not too comfortable with certain greatness needing so many explanations. I would prefer people say that Yao IS great, end of the story, without those when, if,and but. Dare I to say, that Yao would probably prefer that way too. On a side note, can Nate Robinson claim that because of his size, he can't be at the level of MJ, but he's probably one of the best in his size, so he is one of the all-time great players as well? Lots of people, including myself, believe that Yao can and will get even better. So you are saying that Yao is already at Robinson's level NOW, what will he be when he gets better? Dream and Shaq's level? Didn't you just say that he can't? It's quite funny, that I had to argue with people that Yao wasn't a bust or p***y, when he had 0-8; a month later, I have to argue with people that Yao is NOT a great player yet, after he reached 20-10 2/3 into the season.
It is not easy to compare two players at different team and in different era. Yao should be one of the best center in the next several years. Robison and Ewing were the past best centers. Considering the development of basketball sports, the level of NBA now is higher than that in the past. Anyone can get the answer easily. NBA is just a business and Jordan is a god produced by the NBA managment. Yao's performance is great now, but this does not mean rocket will enter palyoff or get championship because basketball is a team play sports.
You are talking about logic and facts, which is great. Your arguement is that he WILL get better, and you believe he WILL be at Robinson's level when he FINISHES his career. I supported that and repeated that again and again and again in this thread. The thread title is "Yao among other great centers", and some posts are saying he IS great NOW. I begged to differ. Where is your logic and facts to support that? YOu brought out other centers' CAREER number, which crosses around 10 or even more years. Consistency is a major factor about greatness. Nobody called Kamp great, because his career is too short. How many season exactly have Yao achieved 20-10? 2/3 of a season, where he missed 21 games. Why can't we just watch him improve and cheer for him, before hyping him as an alltime great? It's also good that you mentioned there are only a very few great centers in a not so short NBA history, because you brought out the hard evidence that greatness doesn't come cheap or easy. Therefore, I do not consider Yao Ming a great player NOW.
If you want to talk about todays NBA- let us this year, There is absolutely no doubt that Yao is the best center in NBA. The problem with your argument on peers saying he is great is very tenuous- that will be like the OJ simposn Jury. IT is a fact that in the US- you have to be go through the local system to be granted the benefit of consideration. Dream and Ewing had a lot easier time being accepted early on- Yao does not and will not have that benefit. There was a Bald loser on TV who might end up in the hall of fame who had to kiss an ass. If you want to suggest a bet let me know. It wont be long before Yao gets his ring and the respect. I distinctly recall that nobody referred to Hakeem as "Great" till after he won the first ring. That did not mean he did not show the caliber early on. Yao will ONLY get better with time. It is a question of simple arithmetic. Are you suggesting that he does not deserve 20 attempts a game? Heck if he was not that huge I would mandate 25 attempts a game- not because I want to shore up his stats, but that gives our team the best chance to win with the current composition of talent.
Either my English is too bad, or you just didn't have time to read my posts you were quoting. I don't know who you were arguing with, and what you were arguing about. To make it clear, it's just my personal opinon, it may be worthless. I believe Yao Ming can be a great player, and I hope he does. But again, in my opinion, he is NOT there yet. I have the same problem with people call LBJ as great. I just believe that greatness has to be backed up by time. But it's just me. Don't put words in my mouth. He deserves 20 shots per game, even 25, 30, if he can make them with current accuracy. I trust his judgement when to shot and when to pass.
Please take Yao out from underneath the microscope, and let him develop. Dude is INCREDIBLE. I love this board, but MAN....ya'll get on f**kin nerves. Feel free to bash me.
i dont think they practiced at Westside in the 80's.... i live 1 block from Hayes road and i dont remember that.
Wow, Yaomania has hit the Clutch BBS. Almost every thread on the first page is about Yao Ming. And it probably should be, he is playing superbly, recently. But one stretch of excellent play does not a "great" center make. That is earned over years in this league, and usually by winning at least one or two championships. Ming knows this. It is wonderful, however, to see him playing well. Keep it up.
YAO play really well recently but faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from a great center. I feel if next game YAO got 15/8, some of you guys will nail him from HEAVEN to HELL.
It is interesting. Not long ago people on this board called a career underachiever who managed to put on some good number in 20 games a "great" center and Yao only a "good" center. Now Yao averages 10 more ppg and more boards in his recent hot stretch and he cannot be at least labeled as a "great" center as that glass player who is entering the late stage of his career? If you definition of great center is Wilt/Shaq/Dream/Russell/Kareem at that prime, Yao is not and probably never be a great center. If you throw in the likes of Robinson and Ewing into the mix, I can easily see that Yao finish his career on a similar note as these guys.
Yao Ming's career will be better than Walton, Ewing, Robinsons in the end, but he will NEVER be at the highest echelon of centers. Yao Ming right now is only a very good player, but it's ridiculous to say that he will surpass Olajuwon or Shaq. What are some of the posters here smoking? It is incredible that people have such unreasonable expectations of him, which I think are extremely unfair and I highly doubt he will ever fulfill them. His height will always be a deterrent to his abilities. I also never said that Yao is a superstar player right now. He is not a superstar player right now and I doubt he will ever be what some of the posters here think he will be. He will struggle with consistency at times and will have to learn how to be a clutch player at the end of games. Like I said earlier, he will average 23 points 11 rebounds at the prime of his career. His career numbers will be at the level of Walton/Ewing/D Rob. Those are not unreasonable expectations for Yao Ming.
Some of the posters here think that David Robinson and Patrick Ewing were "great centers," but I will vehemently disagree with them. I would also put Bill Walton and into the category as well. All had severe injuries which limited their health and abilities, and with the exception of Patrick Ewing, all had short peak years in my opinion. Walton may have been able to reach the upper echelon center category, but his injuries were just too much for him to overcome. He also never averaged more than 21 points per game as a pro player. David Robinson was soft and emotionless and Patrick Ewing was a guaranteed failure at the end of important games. Their numbers were also inflated because of the era they played in. They also never had to face the defensive schemes that Yao has to face today. They were great players certainly and were some of the best centers to have ever played the game. But I'm not putting them in the elite category of centers that some people think they are in (including Yao Ming).
Can I ask a little more? 25 points seems not hard at all it he takes 20 attemps per game. And I guess 12+ rebounds is also doable at Yao's prime year. Who knows?
Yet they both consistently put up better numbers than Yao ever has? The new rules don't stop Duncan and Amare from putting up great numbers. They don't stop players from getting double-digit boards, or plenty of blocks a game. Robinson & Ewing didn't have to play with todays rules, but they also didn't have the benefit of going against these cream-puff centers....
Never say never. You can only apply 'never' to yourself, not others... no, not even to yourself. Because in years you'll look stupid. I NEVER doubt that.
