Yankees trying to acquire Wandy Rodriguez at deadline

not saying they weren't but wade's situation wasn't surely worse. added to that he took over the year yao started his annual breakdown

 

Yes, the fearsome squad that had a record of 73-89.

Not defending Wade because I just don't think he is that good but Morey inherited a team that was winning 50 games a year.

That said, injuries are a horrible variable.

 

It annoys the crap out of me but I also realize many teams have gone this route and have come out winners...Tigers, DBacks(twice) and Giants all within the past 7 years.

 

When did you become a Rockets fan?

Since Morey took over, the Yao+T-Mac combo played ZERO playoff games.

 

The Rockets are a different bird. Baseball is so reliant on a farm system, if you have a below average/decent farm system maybe you can hold on to Bourn or Pence as a "face of the franchise" maybe fill in some gaps with some veterans and keep fielding a 72-75 win team.

Our cupboard was literally bare, Drayton had ignored the farm for years (except as chips to deal for free-agents)....we had no choice but to jettison everyone who could draw some prospects and restock for the future.

We were terrible WITH Pence and Bourn....so we can be terrible without them.

The test will be if Crane is ready to spend when the time comes.

 

Barmes will get claimed for sure, and the Astros will pull him back unless they can work out a trade with the claiming team. I expect the Giants will claim him to block Arizona. With the way Fontenot and Cabrera have played this year, its possible they would be willing to trade for him, but I don't think they will after the moves they already made.

 

Lightning in a bottle stories with some world class talents that carried some of those teams, if only the Astros can be so lucky...

I agree, I'll wait and see what Crane does. But I don't have a lot of optimism, quite frankly.

 

Started rebuilding? Really? They traded Scola and Martin? They let go of Yao?

No, they tried to prop up their peanut brittle superstar for one more go when everyone else in the freaking Milky Way knew it wouldn't work. Then when he broke without so much as a week of playing time, they thought "maybe we should begin to go in another direction."

ya think???

 

To add to this, the Rockets STILL aren't rebuilding. At least Drayton eventually understood it. Les is still holding on to some faint hope that our magical bunch of 9th seeders will develop into a contender.

 

??? Lowry, Dragic, Lee, Budinger, Morris, Williams, Parsons, Patterson, and Motiejunas are all young. The Rockets don't expect the young guys to magically become great. They are still trying to add the guy(s) that can lead these guys to the Ring.

 

Outside of Scola, Martin, and Hayes, our average age amongst the players is 23 yrs old (I didn't count Blakely or Cousins, fringe players). How is that not rebuilding? Is it their fault that they compete at a better level than the Astros version of the youth movement? Are the Rockets suppose to gut the team with d-leaguers and become cellar dwellers also in order to *hopefully* get the top lottery pick and *hope* there is a true franchise player to be drafted instead of some good role player?

 

I think the term "rebuilding" has different meanings in different situations. There are also different levels of it. But lets look at the Astros and Rockets.

1) Both teams wanted to remain competitive while infusing some younger talent into their systems,

Rockets: I would say they have succeeded at this. Their are 3 (Scola, Martin, Hayes) that arguably could fetch something and are not young. Everyone else is. While the group they have wont win any championships, they are a competitive bunch and are fun to watch. They also have managed to stay in the hunt for a big time player that could elevate them into contention.

Astros: They tried to stay competitive holding on to guys like Wandy, Myers, Pence, Kepp and Bourn. Didnt work out did it? They were so many players away from being competitive, that they really had no choice but to sell their remaining assets and try to compete in 2-4 years.

2) Neither team wanted to fall out of contention, but they did. However, it happened in two completely different ways.

Rockets: Basically they lost Yao and McGrady to injury. Certainly you cant blame Morey or Les for that can you? With Yao, I will admit the writing was on the wall that his body wouldnt hold up. And its true that we could have gotten a big return for him had the Rockets moved him out while his value was high and still able to play. But also, there was a reasonable chance that he might mend. That he may last a couple more years.

Astros: They mortgaged their farm system for a couple stellar years resulting in one World Series appearance. The resulting fall that followed was directly a result of what Drayton did to the farm and/or the signings, trades, and failed draft signings (2007) that followed.

Overall, both teams (more or less) attempted the same strategy (rebuild and remain competitive at the same time). While its clear the Astros failed, the jury is still out on the Rockets. Unlike the Astros, the Rockets still have a credible array of assets that could land them the needed player(s) to get competitive again. The Astros relinquished theirs some time ago.

 

This.

Just shows that the Rockets are the best sports organization in Houston. Even when they rebuild, they are still a fringe playoff team. The Rockets are YOUNG.

 

jim1961, your post is excellent. I certainly don't intend to argue that the Astros have done *better* than the Rockets. Only that I don't the Rockets have done quite as excellently as it seems popular opinion holds. I only have one disagreement with your post:

YES. Yes, I can. And, I do. I swear to you, jim, I heard some Martians shaking their heads talking about how they couldn't believe the Rox were banking on Yao playing. Like in 2009. I'd been screaming to cut or trade both of those jokers long before that was a popularly held opinion -- but come on man; at the beginning of last year most of us were shaking our heads at the idea of Morey hoping Yao would pan out. We all *knew* Peanut Brittle would break again. We *knew* Tracy was done, too. Everyone seemed to know this but the guy whose job it is to make the team better. Can I blame him for that? You'd better believe I can. It's on you, Morey and Les. Enjoy those big Chinese dollars while you can.

 

Did we get Sabathia yet?

 

Thanks.

Before the 2009/10 season started, Yao's trade value was at a very low point. As hindsight would have it, even getting a D league player for him might have been better than keeping him. That aside, its my opinion that trading Yao at such a low point (considering a couple role players is all we could have expected back) was countered by the hope that he might give us 20 good minutes a game for 2 years or so. That was considered a realistic expectation at the time. The doctors said he was healed, and most were convinced he would be a asset, if perhaps only a part time one. If we had traded him, and he accomplished the later, Morey and Les would have been hung to rot by fans for getting basically more bench players we certainly didnt need for a guy who could do what he could. Add to that the Chinese money connection.

I wouldnt say the Rockets were banking on him. But they were not going to trade him for an older 2nd tier player, or several younger untried players either. WE had a roster full of not quite star players already. So in my mind, we had nothing to gain (that we didnt already have in abundance) by trading him.

As for those that feel his 7'6" frame alone suggested he wouldnt last, Morey didnt draft him. But Les saw correctly the very high ceiling such a plyer would have, and gambled. And for the most part, lost.

But having said all that, I can see where some can say Morey and Co. failed in handling this in the most productive way. And regardless of the circumstances, they are ultimately accountable.

Now I promise, back to baseball

 

Yes, they started rebuilding.

Not sure if you answered your own question or not.

 

They tried to trade Tracy for Vince Carter in 2009 I believe, then TMac opted for surgery. They finally traded him in EARLY 2010 for an excellent package that included Kevin Martin.

As far as trading Yao... I doubt he had much value.

So I'm not sure what you're arguing. The Astros took WAY too long to rebuild. The Rockets at worst took MAYBE a year too long. That's all I'm saying, not that the Rockets are perfect.