[yahoo woj report]Nuggets Looking Into Three-Way Trades

Kobe is a killer competitor.....that is something I value more than most anything.....melo is not.

DD

 

Melo is one of the ten best players in the game right now. Martin is nowhere near that. If we're just talking about who is the better player (all other things being equal) I don't think there's even a discussion.

 

theres not....so dont frustrate yourself arguing w DD about it...he has his opinion...we have ours

 

Melo is NOT one of the 10 best players in the game, he is one of the best scorers, but I value players that do much more than just score the ball as the best players.

Kmart and Melo give you the same amount of offensive production, only KMart is much more efficient at it, and he does it without being in a "No snitching" video, or getting caught with drugs in his bag at the airport.

I am not saying Kmart is as good as Melo, I am saying Kmart is better for this team than Melo......

DD

 

the team that has a healthy Yao Ming, right?

i'll agree to disagree on whether he's one of the 10 best...becauase i'd have him better than merely #10. he's a second-team, all-nba player.

 

No actually, any team.

I think if Melo is your best player, his lack of character will eventually hurt the team.

Yes, he won an NCAA championship, but the leader on that team is the coach....in the pros, you have to be a professional, lead by example on the court and play hard day in and day out.

Melo is like Tmac, I don't see a burning desire to win, he seems more interested in being famous than winning basketball games.

Therefore, I would pass.

DD

 

Really? We weren't sure how you felt about Carmelo yet. Thanks for clarifying, brother.

 

Why do people always search for abstract, unquantifiable reasons for why some players win titles and some don't, while ignoring the concept of "better teams usually win."

When Kobe didn't have Gasol on his team, where did he get them with all his hardwork? Nowhere. The talk then was how bad of a teammate he was, how selfish he was, how he didn't make players better, etc. He gets Gasol and all of a sudden it becomes "Kobe's will and drive to win is why the Lakers are champs!"

Lebron played as hard as he could when he was on the court. He couldn't carry his team to a title because at the end of the day, they just weren't good enough. Yao is a fighter and a professional, and even when healthy he couldn't carry this team out of the first round for a long time. Stockton and Malone were professionals on the court that played their butts off and didn't win a title.

For all his alleged lack of basketball character, Melo has had pretty good success with that Denver team, and has played exceptionally well in the playoffs if memory serves me correct. If Kobe didn't have Gasol, Melo might have won a championship.

Edit: It's also ridiculous to me that you use the efficiency argument to argue for Martin over Melo, but then use the intangibles argument to argue for Kobe over Martin.

For you the most important aspect is whatever lets you support your preferred player. You don't like Carmello, probably because deep down inside you resent him from his NCAA days, so whatever arguments you need to use to rationalize why he isn't good enough is what you'll do. Be it efficiency! Character! We aren't built to win a title anyway! We are good enough to win a title without him! It doesn't matter as long as it supports Martin over Melo.

 

I'll back you up a little DD...
Statiscally, both Kevin and Melo are very similar:

Career FG%: Melo 45.9%, Martin 44.8%
Career FT%: Melo 80.1%, Martin 81.9%
Career Reb: Melo 6.2, Martin 4.3
Career Assists: Melo 3.1, Martin 2.6
Career Steals: Melo 1.2, Martin 1.0
Career Blocks: Melo 0.4, Martin 0.2
Career TO: Melo 3.08, Martin 1.72

Melo has a large advantage in rebounds while Martin is much less turnover prone. All of the other statistics are virtually equal.

The argument here is a lineup including either Martin/Battier or Lee/Melo. From a $$$/player quality standpoint, the former is better. From a GM/owner standpoint, possessing Melo is much more desirable. Morey wants a superstar. Superstars sell tickets and merchandise.

While you make a valid point that Carmelo very might well be worse for the Rockets than Martin, an owner will take the namebrand 100% of the time. Melo is not Mr. Glass like Tmac and has deeper playoff experience. He's also a proven winner.

The Rockets would have to make some serious changes and would take some time to gel if they could bring Melo in. Melo would be the face of the Rockets until the day he retires.

 

so on ANY team...kevin martin is a better player than anthony?

man, i can't believe how much i disagree with that. i can't believe there's anyone outside of Kevin Martin's family who actually believes that.

 

Max,

If Melo was the 2nd best player then I would agree, but I think as a lead dog he is flawed and always will be....just my op.

DD

 

Just ignore, makes life so much easier.

 

sooo instead we take martin or brooks as a lead dog since they have a more proven track record? Your logic is so scattered...first its stats...that gets shut down...etc etc...

Another thing you fail to realize there is a huge difference in defensive pressure around melo than martin...the fact that their stats are so similar is even more disturbing...martin is almost never double teamed and gets a lot of open looks...melo is hammered, fouled, double teamed..trapped. The focus of the D.

Thats why he is a top player that morey would trade anyone for him...this argument is so boring...find me one gm or even analyst that ranks melo out of the top ten or one that ranks martin in the top 25...maybe even top 30.

That ends the debate right there.

 

follow up...its like comparing nenes FG % with Yaos....

as a rockets fan you know how remarkable it is for yao to have such high numbers as he is the focus of the d...constantly fouled and double teamed...

nene gets nothing but trash buckets and alley oops...so looking at stats is so inconclusive...just a little info.

 

Did you watch him 2 seasons ago when he made the game winning 3 pointer against Dallas? He carried his team to the WCF while putting up huge numbers.

It's clear no one is going to change your mind on Melo but I doubt the overwhelming majority on this board are wrong about him. I mean a lot of people that have been around here for a while and are respected want him on the team.

And please remember that Melo DEMANDS A DOUBLE TEAM. AB or Martin do not.

I think justtxyank may be onto something. You might still be resentful from when Melo singlehandedly bounced Texas from the final four.

 

Stats are like a woman in a bikini.......they show a lot, but, they don't show it all!! :grin:

 

DD, while I'm not a big fan of Melo personally (for the same reasons you're not a fan of his), I have to disagree with you about Carmelo Anthony not being a winner and a fierce competitor.

Sure, he doesn't scowl quite as much as Kobe or Lebron, but dude is a DAMN good player and is perhaps the most clutch last-second scorer in the NBA.

Seriously. Look it up.

Remember when the Lakers BARELY beat the Rockets in the playoffs in 2009? After the Lakers advanced, they went on to play . . . the Denver Nuggets! Led by . . . Carmelo Anthony! (And don't give me the "it was all Chauncy" line. He was key, but Melo was still their best player.)

If not for a couple of errant late-game in-bounds passes (actually, Trevor Ariza and Lamar Odom made some pretty damn nice plays in those situations), Denver might have knocked off the Lakers and quite possibly won the NBA championship that year.

For a guy to get that close to an NBA champsionship, and who carried his team to an NCAA championship in his freshman year, I'm not going to say that guy's not a winner.

But maybe that's just me.

 

I don't want 'Melo.

It's not because he lacks some sort of innate 'winner-ness.' That's a terrible explanation for why some players get rings and others don't. The reason some players win is because they play on better teams. I'm not even worried about his attitude. As long as he produces on the court, I can live with some stupidity. I felt the same way about Artest.

The reason I don't want 'Melo because the marginal difference between his production and Martin's isn't worth his extra cost, and especially not for all the other assets we'd have to give up to acquire him. Pass

 

WojYahooNBA Y! Sources: Nets moving closer to deal for Carmelo Anthony, engaged in complicated multi-team talks. http://tinyurl.com/2wmvzmv

great...all of dds negative vibe has swayed our basketball fortune...and now nets are gonna get him...i guess its better than the knicks.

 

For the people that don't want Melo on the Rockets... well we will see how far we can get in this league without a player of that caliber. We'll see if Kevin Martin and Aaron Brooks can consistently make a move off the dribble and hit a game winning shot in crucial moments during the season and/or playoffs. We'll see what happens when we go on long scoring droughts on offense with a average defense. We'll see if the depth is as deep as we think it is if injuries befall us. Thinking of all that we have a lot of work to do to overcome all that with the current team. It can happen but this is the NBA too... no one on this current team will get the superstar calls or the referee love that helps late in games especially in the playoffs. The Rockets slogan shouldn't be RED RISING it should be WE SHALL OVERCOME!